| [2010/01/30 00:33:37] @ Log started by gepetto | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:33:37] <jamesturnbull> tmz: ping | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:34:23] <tmz> jamesturnbull: Hey | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:36:21] <jamesturnbull> tmz: hey - re gpg-signed tags - I had a go a while back - I maintain the RL key in a different keyring than mine | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:36:29] <jamesturnbull> I just need to puzzle out how to tell git that | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:37:50] <tmz> Is it in a difference GNUPGHOME or just a separate keyring? | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:39:31] <jamesturnbull> tmz: homedir | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:40:22] <jamesturnbull> ah bugger it - let's just put the key into my keyring :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:40:42] <tmz> jamesturnbull: Then perhaps something as simple as GNUPGHOME=/path/to/rl/.gnupg git tag ? | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:41:05] <tmz> With a git alias or rake task to make that easier, of course. ;) | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:41:07] <jamesturnbull> and I could alias that I | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:41:09] <jamesturnbull> guess | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:43:11] <jamesturnbull> tmz: so I might delete and sign and push the 0.25.4 tag | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:44:24] <tmz> jamesturnbull: Those of us who pulled already will have to delete the current tag manually to get it. | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:45:27] <jamesturnbull> tmz: yeah I know | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:45:33] <tmz> Yeah, Not a huge deal, but like the git-tag manpage says it means some people could checkout 0.25.4 and get different things (in this case, just some changelog entries, so nothing big) | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:45:54] <jamesturnbull> I'll send an email to that effect to the -dev list | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:45:59] <tmz> On the upside, yay to signed tags. | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:14] <tmz> That might even prevent someone from filing a bug asking for them. | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:17] <tmz> :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:20] <jamesturnbull> lol | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:26] <jamesturnbull> between you and Micah | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:34] <jamesturnbull> we've bloody well got some security | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:38] <jamesturnbull> stop being so helpful | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:40] <jamesturnbull> :P | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:46:52] * tmz makes a note of that | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:47:46] <tmz> Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a chance to push 0.25.4 into fedora and epel testing repos (well, push the changes to cvs and request them to be pushed to the repos). | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:48:22] <tmz> jamesturnbull: No annoying bugs reported against 0.25.4 yet? | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:49:01] <jamesturnbull> tmz: don't think so - mqr_ might have seen something | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:49:41] <jamesturnbull> tmz: but seriously thank you - Micah set up release signing by providing me and Luke with bullet-proof instructions and tagging the commits signed is also the right thing to do | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:50:12] <tmz> jamesturnbull: Cool. Thanks to you and all the folks at RL and elsewhere for the hard work. | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:51:00] <jamesturnbull> hmm be nice if Github did something with the signed tag | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:53:48] <tmz> Does it at least show the tag message for annotated tags? | ||
| [2010/01/30 00:53:59] * tmz doesn't use github via the web much | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:00:07] <jamesturnbull> tmz: doesn't seem too | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:02:53] <tmz> jamesturnbull: Huh. git show does at least. With a lightweigt tag, it's just like using the commitid, with an annotated tag, you get the tagger, tag message, date, etc. followed by the info for the tagged commit. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:17:25] <mqr_> tmz: we're looking at rerere as well. We're not sure how that works distributed on throw away branches though. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:18:03] <mqr_> And there's something nice about having it in a file you can look at, argue about, and edit and stuff. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:21:50] <jamesturnbull> mqr_: so I am confused ... what do youy expect to have in your conflict resolving patches? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:23:03] <mqr_> The working thought: an old school unified diff patch from the file with the conflict markers to the desired resolution. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:24:17] <mqr_> Any time we encounter a new one (and they may come and go; remember, Luke wants to be able to reorder the branches) we figure out how to resolve it and add that to the repository. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:25:25] <jamesturnbull> ah yes - the re-order thing | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:25:34] <jamesturnbull> was trying to work out why we'd care otherwise | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:25:35] <mqr_> So when we hit a conflict there will either be exactly one patch that applies cleanly (we've seen it before and know how we want to resolve it) or there won't be any, in which case we have the chance to decide. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:25:39] <jamesturnbull> still seems very complex | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:25:44] <mqr_> Uh huh. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:25:47] @ lak joined channel #puppet-dev | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:26:21] <jamesturnbull> mqr_: so basically we're catering for lak's insanity? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:26:23] <mqr_> We're doing it under program control, in a revised and expanded version of that rake task. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:26:32] <mqr_> Leadership. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:26:33] <jamesturnbull> oh hi lak :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:26:47] <lak> s/catering for/subject to/ | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:26:50] <lak> get it right :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:26:54] <mqr_> Insanity is what you call it when you _aren't_ following. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:27:17] <lak> holy crap this hotel is texan | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:27:22] <lak> which makes sense, being in austin, but still | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:27:23] <lak> holy crap | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:27:39] <mqr_> Like, steer horns on the wall kind of stuff? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:27:41] <jamesturnbull> hmmm so if I get the sequence right ... we try to rebase a new brnach against the testing one and if it conflicts we fix the issue and create a patch? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:27:52] <mqr_> Pictures of the Alamo in the bathroom? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:28:29] <mqr_> Yes, so we don't have to re-invent the conflict resolution each time. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:29:21] <mqr_> rerere may do it for us, but we were confused on first reading. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:29:49] @ nigelk joined channel #puppet-dev | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:30:02] <lak> original oil paintings of cowboys everywhere, (not so bad) country playing loudly | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:30:13] <lak> have to say, though, it's midnight 30 and the bar is actually hopping | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:30:28] <mqr_> That's Texas alright. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:34:26] <jamesturnbull> lak: and you're demonstrating that you're from the west coast by talking on one of those new fangled gadgets | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:34:29] <jamesturnbull> ? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:34:48] * lak isn't really from the west coast... | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:35:30] <jamesturnbull> mqr_: still thinks it's ugly ... | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:35:53] <mqr_> Ugly is relative. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:36:25] <jamesturnbull> mqr_: it's a balance of what we get in return for a complex process | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:36:42] <jamesturnbull> mqr_: rerere looks interesting | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:36:46] <mqr_> Using git-rerere may be cleaner, but (and I just reread the documentation) I still have unanswered questions. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:37:35] <mqr_> Such as: where are these resolutions stored, how do we share them, and can we look at / discuss / change them? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:38:57] <mqr_> What we get is flexibility. We get away from either having to slam untested patches in and hope for the best or leave them on the sidelines to languish as the codebase drifts away from them. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:40:04] <mqr_> And while maintaining reified conflict resolutions may seem "complex" it beats having to re-do them by hand each time/ | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:40:46] <mqr_> Mind you, we're intending to have the rake task do this anyway. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:41:19] <jamesturnbull> mqr_: okay | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:41:56] <mqr_> I hope so. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:42:06] <jamesturnbull> I still think we get into this mess because testing is insufficient ... fix testing and we can be a lot more confident in merging features | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:43:04] <mqr_> That's part of it too. But testing isn't a magic bullet (especially the way we do it). | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:43:26] <jamesturnbull> look you're always going to have some bugs ... let's face it | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:43:39] <jamesturnbull> otherwise we wouldn't nedd bug fix releases | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:44:29] <mqr_> Testing that the code does what we think it does in the situations we've considered doesn't tell us one whit about how it meets the expectations of other people in situations we haven't considered. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:45:21] <mqr_> Nothing's going to replace being able to make something for people to try that contains _tentative_ features. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:45:27] <lak> jamesturnbull: isn't this process pretty much exactly what the linux community does? what's so different about them that they need this functionality and we don't? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:45:47] * lak == mqr_ on this one | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:46:21] <jamesturnbull> lak: do they? I thought it was handled differently | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:46:33] <mqr_> They have a much more modular system, with maintainers that own fiefdoms. And they _do_ wind up tracking conflict resolution patches anyway. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:46:39] <lak> well, they don't actually use branches, so the tools are different - they use patches in mboxes | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:46:46] <lak> but the basic idea is exactly the same | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:47:07] <jamesturnbull> so let's go back to first principles - what are we trying to do? what's the priority? that we can pull a patch set out if it breaks? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:47:12] <lak> mqr_: the fact that we don't have this system, with its harsh treatment of merge conflicts, is one reason why we're not as modular | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:47:42] <lak> jamesturnbull: imo, it's so we can bake patches for any length of time, and not automatically merge in patch 5 just because patch 15 is merged | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:48:02] <mqr_> And that we're just coming out of the Linus/Luke owns it all phase, ten+ years behind them. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:48:06] <lak> some might need to bake for months while others only for a bit | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:48:11] <lak> yeah | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:48:40] <jamesturnbull> so we could end up having multiple resolution patches? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:48:56] <jamesturnbull> piled on top of each other as we try to rebase over the months? | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:49:01] <mqr_> Sure. No harm, 'cause only one of them will apply. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:49:11] <mqr_> At each conflict. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:50:00] <jamesturnbull> hmmm still don't think we've applied any science around working out how often this happenes and how big an issue it is - Linux is HUGE - huge the modular and fiefdom nature | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:50:18] <jamesturnbull> s/huge/hence/ | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:51:15] <mqr_> Jesse and I have done some initial examination based on the branches we have in hand. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:52:24] <mqr_> I think it may seem more daunting if you're used to doing it manually. But manually is a non-starter here. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:53:18] <mqr_> Anyway, I'm being told I'm overdue to go read about a train load of baby animals that need to get to the zoo by bedtime. | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:53:24] <mqr_> ttfn... | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:53:50] <jamesturnbull> it's not the daunting part - I'll work that part out - and you promise much automation :) - it's the value versus complexity - and this is the wrong medium to have this discussion. later | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:54:32] <jamesturnbull> lak: I submitted to OSCON btw | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:54:38] <lak> ah, very cool | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:54:59] <jamesturnbull> on cucumber-nagios as a test driver for sysadmins | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:58:01] <jamesturnbull> lak: and the release is looking good so far | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:58:07] <lak> *whew* :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:58:08] <jamesturnbull> lak: so show-stoppers anyway | ||
| [2010/01/30 01:58:18] <jamesturnbull> s/so/no/ | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:01:35] <jamesturnbull> lak: you expecting to do rowlf next or 0.25.5? | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:01:45] <lak> i certainly hope rowlf | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:02:00] <lak> i'll be kicking mqr_ et al to work on features rather than bugfixing for a while | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:02:15] <lak> and we've got quite a bit of useful functionality we should be releasing, rather than it just sitting there | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:02:41] <jamesturnbull> if you get a chance you could merge the 0.25.4 tag into master - but no rush - be good to start testing with the up-to-date master branch | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:03:47] <jamesturnbull> we've got four fairly big tickets to merge in when everyone's comfortable | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:12:15] <lak> merge the tag or merge 0.25.x? | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:12:19] @ Quit: nigelk: | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:12:25] <lak> and i think mqr_ has taken over that merging :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:27:57] <jamesturnbull> lak: the tag and that's fine ... don't mind which of you do it | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:38:31] <jamesturnbull> lak: re the recent flurry of emails about the facter patch | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:38:53] <jamesturnbull> lak: we keep saying we're going to refacter - have in fact been saying it since about 2008 :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:39:13] <jamesturnbull> lak: how about we bite the bullet and refacter rather than bodgy on top of bodgy on top of bodgy :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 02:55:51] @ Quit: lak: Read error: 113 (No route to host) | ||
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| [2010/01/30 03:18:34] <nasrat> jamesturnbull: how are you dealing with CHANGELOG/ChangeLog on OS X | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:18:56] <nasrat> nm had old tree | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:31:55] <nasrat> ohadlevy: where's your git tree? | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:32:09] <nasrat> for fixes #2573, #2085, #1291 - fixes domain and fqdn facts resolution | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:32:10] <gepetto> nasrat: #2573 is http://projects.reductivelabs.com/issues/show/2573 "Facter - Bug #2573: fqdn is wrong if nodename is not the first part of fqdn - ReductiveLabs.com" | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:32:10] <gepetto> nasrat: #2085 is http://projects.reductivelabs.com/issues/show/2085 "Facter - Bug #2085: facter determins fqdn in strange and suboptimal ways - ReductiveLabs.com" | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:32:11] <gepetto> nasrat: #1291 is http://projects.reductivelabs.com/issues/show/1291 "Facter - Bug #1291: Facter is using the NIS domain name instead of DNS domain name in some cases - ReductiveLabs.com" | ||
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| [2010/01/30 03:34:11] @ quit (okay bye) | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:34:21] @ Joined channel #puppet-dev | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:34:21] @ Topic is "http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet" | ||
| [2010/01/30 03:34:21] @ Topic set by ReinH on Wed Sep 09 18:22:10 -0400 2009 | ||
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| [2010/01/30 04:26:48] <ohadlevy> narsat: I've updated my github now | ||
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| [2010/01/30 04:31:57] <nasrat> ohadlevy: cheers | ||
| [2010/01/30 04:41:33] <jamesturnbull> nasrat: you sorted it? | ||
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| [2010/01/30 04:52:59] <nasrat> jamesturnbull: yeah | ||
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| [2010/01/30 05:05:23] <jamesturnbull> masterzen: you around by any chance so I can quiz someone? | ||
| [2010/01/30 05:05:29] <jamesturnbull> masterzen: if you have time that is | ||
| [2010/01/30 05:07:01] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: just looking at classes and finding something I've not noticed before | ||
| [2010/01/30 05:07:30] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: do you nest classes three deep? sol::net::bob for example? should that work or am I having a senior moment? | ||
| [2010/01/30 05:09:22] <jamesturnbull> nasrat: or ^^^^ | ||
| [2010/01/30 05:10:15] <jamesturnbull> I'm looking at the lexer and I can't see how it could work | ||
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| [2010/01/30 06:10:08] <Volcane> jamesturnbull: yeah 3 deep works | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:10:09] @ Quit: nasrat: Quit: nasrat | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:10:24] <Volcane> jamesturnbull: suckily though, foo::bar::baz is in manifests/bar/baz.pp | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:10:39] <Volcane> but foo::bar::baz::blah is in manifests/bar/baz/blah.pp | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:44:00] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: you sure it works? | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:45:43] <Volcane> yeah i do it all the time | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:46:00] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: in this format - http://pastie.org/801677 ? | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:46:16] <Volcane> oh no i never write like that | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:46:19] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: include sol::net::bob works but sol::net::10 needs to be quoted? | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:46:21] <Volcane> class foo::bar::baz { } | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:46:49] <jamesturnbull> it works though - just seems class references with numbers suck | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:46:50] <Volcane> never tried numerical classes hmm | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:48:30] <Volcane> but ya, gotta quote those | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:49:19] <Volcane> class one::two::10 doesnt work at all | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:49:31] <Volcane> not quoted or unquoted | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:49:38] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: you don't write like that because you don't like it ? | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:49:43] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: works for me quoted | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:50:02] <Volcane> class "one::two::10" { } | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:50:03] <Volcane> Could not parse for environment production: Syntax error at 'one::two::10' at /home/rip/test.pp:1 | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:50:07] <Volcane> ditto without the quotes | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:51:04] <Volcane> jamesturnbull: well i dont think it has any sense, when using modules, class per file so nesting just doesnt make sense | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:52:33] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: fair enough - the nested classes do work quoted though which means our behaviour is totally inconsitent :) | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:52:51] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2010/01/30 06:53:48] <Volcane> http://pastie.org/801690 | ||
| [2010/01/30 07:04:06] <jamesturnbull> Volcane: yeah I'll have to fix the regex in the lexer | ||
| [2010/01/30 07:12:34] * Volcane 's gotta go mount a bladecenter, yawn | ||
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| [2010/01/30 09:24:47] <hacim> \o/ | ||
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| [2010/01/30 23:02:11] <rocket_> olddogjoe | ||
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