Monday, 2008-05-26

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[2008/05/26 00:57:08] <martha> so, I have one machine where puppet takes up 250 MB of memory. and I have no idea why. if I restart it, it immediately grows back to that size. any ideas?
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[2008/05/26 02:35:15] <_vadim_> MAILTO=me@mail.com
[2008/05/26 02:35:15] <_vadim_> * * * * * sh /usr/local/sbin/raid_mon.sh
[2008/05/26 02:35:15] <_vadim_>
[2008/05/26 02:35:15] <_vadim_> How can i put such lines in crontab. I have:
[2008/05/26 02:35:15] <_vadim_> cron { raid_mon:
[2008/05/26 02:35:16] <_vadim_> command => 'sh /usr/local/sbin/raid_mon.sh';
[2008/05/26 02:35:18] <_vadim_> }
[2008/05/26 02:35:20] <_vadim_>
[2008/05/26 02:35:22] <_vadim_> But what about MAILTO ??
[2008/05/26 02:35:24] <_vadim_>
[2008/05/26 02:35:26] <_vadim_> thanks
[2008/05/26 02:36:52] <Volcane> cron type puts it into a users specific crontab
[2008/05/26 02:37:07] <Volcane> if u want that users cron output going somewhere why not make a .forward or alias?
[2008/05/26 02:40:32] <thom> environment => "MAILTO=me@mail.com",
[2008/05/26 02:41:31] <Volcane> ah :)
[2008/05/26 02:41:42] * Volcane 's hardly used the cron type
[2008/05/26 02:41:54] <Volcane> but assume if someone asks they read the docs already
[2008/05/26 02:42:21] <_vadim_> in my case user is root.
[2008/05/26 02:42:22] <_vadim_> i have several cron jobs each of which send your email on different mail address
[2008/05/26 02:42:22] <_vadim_> it is easier in my case to use MAILTO
[2008/05/26 02:42:46] <_vadim_> thom: thanks
[2008/05/26 03:08:30] <martha> so, I have one machine where puppet takes up 250 MB of memory. and I have no idea why. if I restart it, it immediately grows back to that size. any ideas?
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[2008/05/26 03:21:02] <thom> Volcane: that's so rarely a valid assumption; people miss stuff in the docs even if they do read them :)
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[2008/05/26 03:33:20] <a-priori> I can't begin to count the number of times I've read someone else's code and thought, "why isn't that in the docs?"
[2008/05/26 03:33:27] <a-priori> then I read the docs again, and it's actually in there
[2008/05/26 03:33:34] <a-priori> and I've read that passage
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[2008/05/26 03:37:05] <thom> a-priori: yeah, indeed
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[2008/05/26 06:12:11] <Babar> http://puppet.reductivelabs.com/support.php <---- old link, but still in some pages, and output is weird++ (Environment not found)
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[2008/05/26 06:25:09] <Av> if i have a list of machines which need to be part of the same "node" (eg 'webcluster'), how do i define that list? just makes a nodes.pp, import it? if so, i'm not sure what should be in the nodes.pp file :)
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[2008/05/26 06:35:55] <ashp> hey lak :)
[2008/05/26 06:36:00] <lak> hi
[2008/05/26 06:36:15] <ashp> good weekend?
[2008/05/26 06:39:04] <lak> well, i'm about to start working, so it can't be that great :/
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[2008/05/26 07:04:07] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1247 (defect closed): "undefined method `clear_cache' for Puppet::Indirector::Indirection:Cl... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1247#comment:3 (by luke@madstop.com)
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[2008/05/26 07:37:14] <fujin> holaway: what's up with the ?utf-8?Q?Another_refactor_based_on_feedback_from_Luke._This_includes _adding_an_acc=
[2008/05/26 07:37:18] <fujin> email subjects
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[2008/05/26 07:53:41] <fujin> morning shadoi
[2008/05/26 08:01:59] <shadoi> lo
[2008/05/26 08:06:14] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1245 (defect closed): "Global resource removal is deprecated" makes tests fail @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1245#comment:6 (by paul@tertiusfamily.net)
[2008/05/26 08:06:15] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1252 (defect closed): ssh_authorized_key unit tests broken when run against master @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1252#comment:5 (by luke@madstop.com)
[2008/05/26 08:09:31] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1252 (defect reopened): ssh_authorized_key unit tests broken when run against master @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1252#comment:6 (by luke@madstop.com)
[2008/05/26 08:09:31] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1252 (defect closed): ssh_authorized_key unit tests broken when run against master @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1252#comment:7 (by luke@madstop.com)
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[2008/05/26 08:29:26] <jamesturnbull> Av: well it depends - if you want to list the nodes in the file you'd something like node node1,node2,node3 { include webcluster include xclasses }
[2008/05/26 08:30:04] <jamesturnbull> Av: you could also use external nodes or LDAP nodes - search the wiki for the those
[2008/05/26 08:35:02] <jamesturnbull> lak: that's a lot of -commit messages - what prompted that flurry? Did the old commits get run or something? Or were you updating the old stable master against github or something
[2008/05/26 08:35:29] <lak> i merged 0.24.x into master
[2008/05/26 08:35:34] <lak> so our commit hoook, not so good
[2008/05/26 08:35:42] <fujin> mm
[2008/05/26 08:35:43] <lak> and my spelllllling, not so good
[2008/05/26 08:35:53] <fujin> mime/multipart .patches <--
[2008/05/26 08:36:14] <jamesturnbull> lak: yeah this isn't going to work so much well - it's a little back to th drawing board I think
[2008/05/26 08:37:01] <fujin> at least we've got the beginning to 'eyes on code'
[2008/05/26 08:37:11] <fujin> took me nearly an hour to step through all of your commits though lak :P
[2008/05/26 08:37:31] <lak> my commits? they're mostly someone else's, aren't they?
[2008/05/26 08:37:39] <lak> but i appreciate them being stepped through
[2008/05/26 08:37:44] <lak> jamesturnbull: i think i agree
[2008/05/26 08:37:58] <lak> and it probably is a good idea to have one message per push, rather than one per commit
[2008/05/26 08:38:22] <lak> jamesturnbull: off-topic a bit, but linux has a file access monitoring service now, right?
[2008/05/26 08:38:27] <jamesturnbull> lak: I updated 0.24.x btw with your repo this morning too
[2008/05/26 08:38:30] <lak> probably using dbus these days, but something FAM-like?
[2008/05/26 08:38:30] <jamesturnbull> lak: fam
[2008/05/26 08:38:34] <lak> still? ok
[2008/05/26 08:38:44] <lak> i thought it had gotten deprecated or something
[2008/05/26 08:39:06] <jamesturnbull> lak: hmm let me look
[2008/05/26 08:39:09] <lak> i just switched my .autotest file to use OS X's FAM-like interface, because it was hammering my machine
[2008/05/26 08:39:22] <lak> doesn't really matter to me, but: http://rails.aizatto.com/2007/11/28/taming-the-autotest-beast-with-fsevents
[2008/05/26 08:39:40] <lak> if you're finding autotest takes too many resources, that might lead you down the path of using FAM to fix it
[2008/05/26 08:39:46] <fujin> is gamin the new fam?
[2008/05/26 08:39:52] <fujin> s/is/isn't/
[2008/05/26 08:40:01] <lak> and ftr, ryan davis (the guy yelling about how this isn't a problem) is autotest's author
[2008/05/26 08:40:25] <jamesturnbull> yeah gamin that's it
[2008/05/26 08:40:52] <jamesturnbull> hmmm or is it
[2008/05/26 08:41:26] <fujin> I used the mono bindings for gamin for a media player project a while ago
[2008/05/26 08:41:34] <fujin> requires something in the Linux kernels to be enabled
[2008/05/26 08:42:11] <lak> ah, so many linux stories start with "just recompile your kernel, and then..." :)
[2008/05/26 08:42:26] <jamesturnbull> lak: well anyway fam should still work - I can't work out what the current default is on my RH boxes
[2008/05/26 08:42:33] <fujin> lak: such a pita :P
[2008/05/26 08:42:42] <fujin> most of the recent distros ship with said option enabled
[2008/05/26 08:42:43] <lak> like i said, doesn't really matter to me -- i don't use autotest on *nix
[2008/05/26 08:42:47] <fujin> because of the indexing service makes use of it
[2008/05/26 08:42:49] <lak> but those who do might be interested
[2008/05/26 08:45:26] <jamesturnbull> lak: personally I like what Rusty does with the lguest mailing list (and I guess it's similar to the kernel process) - everyone has private repos and when they want to merge a patch upstream they email it to the mailing list and its reviewed and then if no one objects its pushed - that was my original intent when I started the discussion
[2008/05/26 08:45:26] <fujin> man Merb is awesome
[2008/05/26 08:45:58] <shadoi> jamesturnbull: there's an inotify ruby lib, works nicely.
[2008/05/26 08:46:32] <lak> jamesturnbull: i thought it was lutter who started this, but either way, i know that was your goal
[2008/05/26 08:46:37] <lak> and clearly, this commit thing isn't working as-is
[2008/05/26 08:46:41] <jamesturnbull> shadoi: yeah I remember you or holoway pointing that out to me
[2008/05/26 08:46:51] <lak> but i also like the idea of the -commits list being for more than just the main repo
[2008/05/26 08:47:10] <lak> i'd like people to be able to easily follow dev work i am not ready to merge yet
[2008/05/26 08:47:17] <lak> and i'd like to follow others' development
[2008/05/26 08:47:21] <jamesturnbull> lak: me too hence my last email to lutter saying let's do both
[2008/05/26 08:47:32] <jamesturnbull> but only stable/master commits in the -dev list
[2008/05/26 08:47:39] <lak> ok
[2008/05/26 08:47:40] <jamesturnbull> so git email > blah
[2008/05/26 08:47:47] <lak> so... you're not disagreeing with me
[2008/05/26 08:48:00] <jamesturnbull> lak: I thought the discussion about dev process was me? was it lutter?
[2008/05/26 08:48:05] <jamesturnbull> lak: okay ... :)
[2008/05/26 08:48:15] <lak> isn't what rusty is doing basically what we've been discussing, plus more people using the -commit list?
[2008/05/26 08:48:23] <lak> well, lutter brought up the emailing of patches on the dev call
[2008/05/26 08:48:38] <lak> we should plan another dev call on thurs, btw (my thurs, your fri morning)
[2008/05/26 08:49:01] <jamesturnbull> lak: ah okay - no the -commit bot/hook thing seems to have sidetracked the git emal process
[2008/05/26 08:49:12] <lak> something like that, yeah
[2008/05/26 08:49:43] <jamesturnbull> lak: my intent all along has been "if you want to submit a patch then git email it to the -dev list" - it's ACK'ed, approved, the associated ticket is actioned and the commit pushed
[2008/05/26 08:50:01] <lak> ah, i must have missed that, or i'm just being retarded
[2008/05/26 08:50:07] <lak> sundays do tend to make me retarded
[2008/05/26 08:55:00] <fujin> ;>
[2008/05/26 09:01:01] <lak> anyone using gitosis?
[2008/05/26 09:01:08] <lak> looks like i should set it up
[2008/05/26 09:03:05] <jamesturnbull> lak: another damn python app
[2008/05/26 09:03:11] <lak> ayup
[2008/05/26 09:05:48] <lak> but at least it looks like it will give me svn-like permissions, which i've been desperately craving
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[2008/05/26 09:12:48] <lak> i'm working on the git repo paths, so if people have issues, just gimme a minute
[2008/05/26 09:17:59] <lak> ok, i think git is back to normal
[2008/05/26 09:18:05] <lak> if anyone has any problems, lemme know
[2008/05/26 09:18:09] <lak> jamesturnbull: still working on your access
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[2008/05/26 09:59:30] <jamesturnbull> lak: no worries - I'll write that dev process up todat and email to the list
[2008/05/26 10:00:33] <lak> ok
[2008/05/26 10:00:43] <lak> and you should have write access to the central repos soon, i hope
[2008/05/26 10:00:49] <ska-fan> I guess, given that you warn about ruby crashing every so often mysteriously, it is recommended practice to run puppetd under runit, right?
[2008/05/26 10:01:35] <jamesturnbull> lak: two streams - one for stable/master/dev which is via -dev and the other is more a "it'd be good if you used Adam's commitbot so we all knew what you'll were up to"
[2008/05/26 10:02:03] <lak> jamesturnbull: yeah, that sounds good, although i would say "a commitbot"
[2008/05/26 10:02:11] <jamesturnbull> lak: did you like the last part - I made it all Southern - "y'all" I suspect it's spelt though
[2008/05/26 10:02:19] <jamesturnbull> lak: yeah Adam's code.
[2008/05/26 10:02:26] <lak> it is indeed "y'all"
[2008/05/26 10:02:45] <jamesturnbull> lak: how did they ever have a country... :P
[2008/05/26 10:03:02] <lak> so... y'all is worse than g'day? :)
[2008/05/26 10:03:17] <jamesturnbull> lak: much, much worse
[2008/05/26 10:03:20] <lak> hah
[2008/05/26 10:03:31] <jamesturnbull> lak: and I am sure I can justify that....
[2008/05/26 10:03:35] * jamesturnbull runs aways
[2008/05/26 10:06:05] <jamesturnbull> bbiab y'all
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[2008/05/26 10:44:56] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Puppet Presentations edited by auxesis @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/PuppetPresentations (by lindsay@holmwood.id.au)
[2008/05/26 10:50:33] <fujin> holaway: merb is a real nice framework - ty for the heads up.. I prob woudln't have looked at it otherwise
[2008/05/26 11:19:59] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1256 (defect closed): Tests failing with "Cannot save ca; parent directory $HOME/.puppet/ssl... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1256#comment:1 (by luke@madstop.com)
[2008/05/26 11:19:59] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1257 (defect closed): Puppet::SSL::CertificateAuthority tests failing with unexpected "#.nam... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1257#comment:1 (by luke@madstop.com)
[2008/05/26 11:25:56] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Changeset [29f5f1b862112179ce1b77ae0177811ab2208aeb]: Merge branch '0.24.x' Conflicts: CHANGELOG lib... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/changeset/29f5f1b862112179ce1b77ae0177811ab2208aeb (by Luke Kanies <luke@madstop.com>)
[2008/05/26 11:25:56] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Changeset [6f533d11277dea2c57755cf379342a6bfb818eb8]: Fixing #1247 -- no more clear_cache failures. ... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/changeset/6f533d11277dea2c57755cf379342a6bfb818eb8 (by Luke Kanies <luke@madstop.com>)
[2008/05/26 11:25:56] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Changeset [447507c5f8e2c72d6962c29423fbf6fc8d8238a4]: Fixing #1245 -- ssh_authorized_keys tests work... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/changeset/447507c5f8e2c72d6962c29423fbf6fc8d8238a4 (by Luke Kanies <luke@madstop.com>)
[2008/05/26 11:25:56] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Changeset [66c36f0f85f6914372980c66432d1ba122a50321]: Fixing another failing test -- the new CA test... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/changeset/66c36f0f85f6914372980c66432d1ba122a50321 (by Luke Kanies <luke@madstop.com>)
[2008/05/26 11:25:56] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Changeset [eb5e42263c109096a2ab4aa31f062f3e603db0dd]: Fixing #1256 -- CA tests now work with no ~/.p... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/changeset/eb5e42263c109096a2ab4aa31f062f3e603db0dd (by Luke Kanies <luke@madstop.com>)
[2008/05/26 11:25:57] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Changeset [eaa6eabc680cb6264594e30fd6a56e3e36765269]: Fixing #1258 -- Removing a Rails idiom. This i... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/changeset/eaa6eabc680cb6264594e30fd6a56e3e36765269 (by Luke Kanies <luke@madstop.com>)
[2008/05/26 11:25:57] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1258 (defect closed): TypeError in Puppet::Indirector::REST test @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1258#comment:2 (by luke@madstop.com)
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[2008/05/26 11:34:00] <fujin> o_0
[2008/05/26 11:35:30] <msf> can any point me to where I can get the "Reductive build library"
[2008/05/26 11:38:58] @ Quit: dysinger:
[2008/05/26 11:40:35] <jamesturnbull> lak: does that imply you'd like the master stable repo to be back at madstop?
[2008/05/26 11:40:47] <lak> eh? no
[2008/05/26 11:40:59] <lak> did you get that text i sent you?
[2008/05/26 11:41:11] <lak> sorry, i didn't understand your question
[2008/05/26 11:41:12] <jamesturnbull> IM or text?
[2008/05/26 11:41:17] <lak> mobile txt
[2008/05/26 11:41:30] <lak> either way... looks like you merged master into your 0.24.x branch
[2008/05/26 11:41:41] <lak> you've got commits in it that i did today that should only be in master
[2008/05/26 11:41:47] <jamesturnbull> oh crap
[2008/05/26 11:41:48] <lak> and the lib/puppet/ssl dir should only exist in master
[2008/05/26 11:42:36] <lak> fortunately i caught it before i pushed to any other branches, so my personal 0.24.x branch should be updated as of yesterday, i think, as is the reductivelabs copy
[2008/05/26 11:42:37] <jamesturnbull> but I just did a git pull luke 0.24.x? why would I get master?
[2008/05/26 11:42:48] <lak> not sure
[2008/05/26 11:43:03] <lak> i checked as much as possible and i can't find any way it could have been my branch
[2008/05/26 11:43:11] <lak> it's definitely in your github branch but not mine
[2008/05/26 11:43:16] <jamesturnbull> okay now how do I back out
[2008/05/26 11:43:20] <lak> and not in the reductivelabs branch
[2008/05/26 11:43:25] <jamesturnbull> that's fucking weird
[2008/05/26 11:43:29] <lak> yeah
[2008/05/26 11:43:48] <lak> i don't get why there wasn't a merge commit, either
[2008/05/26 11:44:13] <lak> normally you'd do something like: git reset --hard HEAD^X where X is the number of commits you want to revert
[2008/05/26 11:44:31] <jamesturnbull> me either - I get some git log entries which I can see now are from master but no merge messages
[2008/05/26 11:44:48] <lak> which i *think* is HEAD^4
[2008/05/26 11:44:51] <jamesturnbull> something in fishy in the state of denmark
[2008/05/26 11:44:56] <lak> i concur
[2008/05/26 11:46:04] <lak> sorry, you specify a commit, not the HEAD^4
[2008/05/26 11:46:35] <jamesturnbull> yeah
[2008/05/26 11:46:40] <lak> removing the last four commits got rid of all of the lib/puppet/ssl stuff, which is what clued me in
[2008/05/26 11:47:28] <lak> yeah, so looks like you'll need to do that, then 'git push -f <you> 0.24.x'
[2008/05/26 11:47:43] <lak> i'm pretty shocked that there's no merge log, though
[2008/05/26 11:48:23] <lak> Updating 7b02f2b..eaa6eab
[2008/05/26 11:48:23] <lak> Fast forward
[2008/05/26 11:48:33] <lak> i guess it's because i had just merged the two branches friday
[2008/05/26 11:48:39] <lak> it considered that merge sufficient
[2008/05/26 11:48:43] <lak> crazy
[2008/05/26 11:48:54] <jamesturnbull> okay github should be fine
[2008/05/26 11:50:09] <lak> i think you need to revert one more
[2008/05/26 11:50:27] <lak> yep
[2008/05/26 11:50:48] <ashp> git seems kind of a pain :)
[2008/05/26 11:51:07] <jamesturnbull> okay done
[2008/05/26 11:51:20] <lak> ashp: with great power comes great responsibility
[2008/05/26 11:51:21] <jamesturnbull> current commit should be 7b02f2ba443ba35d7305c24b87028456eaf6bd29
[2008/05/26 11:51:34] <lak> cool, yeah, that looks right
[2008/05/26 11:51:52] <lak> *whew*
[2008/05/26 11:52:39] <lak> now i just need to figure out how to test puppet w/out rails and mongrel :/
[2008/05/26 11:52:52] <lak> this is what i need those images for
[2008/05/26 11:52:59] <jamesturnbull> okay - I have no idea what caused that
[2008/05/26 11:53:34] <lak> i can only think that you accidentally merged it
[2008/05/26 11:53:48] <lak> actually, i can only think that i somehow did and then managed to push it to your repo rather than mine
[2008/05/26 11:53:54] <lak> but one hopes that's not actually possible
[2008/05/26 11:54:41] <jamesturnbull> but I'd have to spefically pull master into 0.24.x
[2008/05/26 11:55:24] <ashp> don't forget to fix my one test related ticket
[2008/05/26 11:55:34] <ashp> where it tries to use your home directory which didn't exist on my machine!
[2008/05/26 11:55:57] <jamesturnbull> I have the commands aliased and just go pull rpeoname - which is aliased to git pull $1 0.24.x. I just checked by bash history and the only pull I did was pull luke
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[2008/05/26 11:56:37] <lak> ashp: yeah, it's in there
[2008/05/26 11:56:42] <lak> http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&group=component&component=testing&order=type
[2008/05/26 11:56:58] <lak> the problem is it's a crap test in general, so...
[2008/05/26 11:57:19] <lak> and really, there's a "local test data should be overrideable" that should actually supercede yours
[2008/05/26 11:57:24] <lak> but i hit the easier ones first
[2008/05/26 11:58:27] <lak> jamesturnbull: well, i'm pretty damn confused how it happened, and i'm comfortable being blamed for it
[2008/05/26 11:58:35] <jamesturnbull> lak: we'll share blame
[2008/05/26 11:58:35] <lak> but really, what's most important is that it's fixed now
[2008/05/26 11:58:43] <lak> "git blame everyone"
[2008/05/26 11:58:47] <jamesturnbull> lol
[2008/05/26 12:00:08] <lak> ok, dinnertime
[2008/05/26 12:00:10] <lak> laters all
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[2008/05/26 14:26:36] <jamesturnbull> lak: so you are thinking git-am for the pull of patches from the -dev list?
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[2008/05/26 14:32:17] <lak> jamesturnbull: i couldn't get that to work last time someone tried it
[2008/05/26 14:32:32] <lak> so i dunno
[2008/05/26 14:33:02] <lak> either way, it requires some significant changes on our part as developers
[2008/05/26 14:33:10] <lak> 1) no development in release branches, ever; only merges
[2008/05/26 14:33:38] <lak> 2) generally releasing larger patches that cover a given chunk of functionality, rather than multiple smaller patches
[2008/05/26 14:34:00] <lak> i think whether we use git am or git pull won't matter if we make those changes
[2008/05/26 14:34:05] <lak> what do you think?
[2008/05/26 14:36:13] <lak> jamesturnbull: what are you testing?
[2008/05/26 14:36:15] <jamesturnbull> agreed
[2008/05/26 14:36:59] <jamesturnbull> lak: ignore it - I am not sending another - cut -and pasted the command from my dev notes and it had the puppetdev list as the email address
[2008/05/26 14:37:13] <lak> heh
[2008/05/26 14:37:21] <lak> ok
[2008/05/26 14:37:38] <lak> what about standards for branch names or whatever?
[2008/05/26 14:37:41] <jamesturnbull> oh wow
[2008/05/26 14:37:44] <lak> "topic branches" as the git people call them
[2008/05/26 14:37:47] <jamesturnbull> you actually responded to the commit
[2008/05/26 14:37:52] <lak> ayup
[2008/05/26 14:38:02] <lak> hey, i figured you were just throwing the first stone :)
[2008/05/26 14:38:53] <jamesturnbull> no no - actually I was just seeing it worked and hwat different options did
[2008/05/26 14:39:43] <jamesturnbull> had sent the others to me - those slipped through
[2008/05/26 14:40:18] <lak> ah
[2008/05/26 14:43:01] <jamesturnbull> hmmm unsure whether no dev in master/0.24.x will work
[2008/05/26 14:43:22] <jamesturnbull> the reason it does for kernel is that it has too - the scale - 4000 odd contributors and thousands of branches
[2008/05/26 14:44:04] <lak> well, i can see dev being done there by the branch maintainer
[2008/05/26 14:44:19] <lak> but say i want to send you a patch for 0.24.x
[2008/05/26 14:44:22] <jamesturnbull> maybe we look at two seperate processes - linked by ticketing - one is the review process trigggered by git send-email and the second is merging - which is done when a ticket is marked ready-for-checkin and done usign merges
[2008/05/26 14:44:53] <lak> i want to be able to continue getting whatever patches you provide until it's merged
[2008/05/26 14:45:11] <lak> but i don't want it to get lost in my own 0.24.x branch
[2008/05/26 14:45:18] <jamesturnbull> yeah
[2008/05/26 14:48:07] <jamesturnbull> see I am happy to review onlist and cherry-pick merges based on revid
[2008/05/26 14:48:13] @ Quit: johnf: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[2008/05/26 14:49:27] <jamesturnbull> lak: ignore that cc - git didn't suppress it correctly
[2008/05/26 14:50:02] <lak> ok
[2008/05/26 14:50:16] <lak> the problem with cherry-picking, though, is that it works poorly for the developer (as opposed to the maintainer)
[2008/05/26 14:50:30] <lak> i mean, it works fine as long as you don't do dev in the release branch
[2008/05/26 14:51:05] <lak> but if you do, then you have to basically rewind to that commit, remove it, then pull from core
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[2008/05/26 14:51:18] <jamesturnbull> yeah
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[2008/05/26 14:52:14] <lak> i really do think there shouldn't be any dev in a release branch unless you're the release maintainer and it's small enough that you're confident it won't interfere with needing to merge with anyone
[2008/05/26 14:52:17] <jamesturnbull> lak: oh great git send-email seems to behave completely differently from the way the man page describes
[2008/05/26 14:52:52] <jamesturnbull> lak: though two commits have actually prompted email on the list
[2008/05/26 14:52:57] <jamesturnbull> :P
[2008/05/26 14:53:00] <lak> i.e., you'd never push a release branch to your personal repo that you wouldn't also push to the release repo (which i have beendifferentiating between)
[2008/05/26 14:53:32] <lak> what do you mean it works differently?
[2008/05/26 14:53:46] <jamesturnbull> the supression options and the threading
[2008/05/26 14:53:53] <lak> ah
[2008/05/26 14:53:57] <jamesturnbull> the --no commands seem to be --yes
[2008/05/26 14:58:11] <jamesturnbull> okay I worked it out - behaviour not quite what I expected
[2008/05/26 15:00:06] <lak> how so?
[2008/05/26 15:02:24] <jamesturnbull> well the reply chain to didn't behaviour exactly how I thought as I was trying to disable threading and the --suppress-cc option seems not to be in version
[2008/05/26 15:02:41] <jamesturnbull> instead i enabled threading and added auto cc's
[2008/05/26 15:07:20] <jamesturnbull> so to summarise - the master and 0.24.x branches have little to no dev. All dev is done in other branches, formatted into patches, sent to the -dev list, reviewed and then if accepted you/I merge from the remote branch?
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[2008/05/26 15:09:32] <ohadlevy> lak: any tips of how to debug facter 1.5rc1?
[2008/05/26 15:10:07] <lak> what's the problem?
[2008/05/26 15:10:12] <lak> i'm trying to remember the issue you had...
[2008/05/26 15:10:20] <ohadlevy> it doesnt load the custom facts on the first time
[2008/05/26 15:10:26] <lak> ah
[2008/05/26 15:10:39] <lak> jamesturnbull: yes
[2008/05/26 15:10:41] <ohadlevy> or custom plugins
[2008/05/26 15:11:26] <lak> jamesturnbull: we can also feel free to cherrypick or whatever at that point, too
[2008/05/26 15:11:41] <lak> i'd document it by saying we'll cherry-pick if the branch hasn't been rebased recently
[2008/05/26 15:11:57] <jamesturnbull> lak: then I'll write guidelines for branches and for what consitutes a "commit" - ie. must actually fix a bug, must blah, etc, etc. Other things like spelling errors etc should be logged in tickets
[2008/05/26 15:12:11] <lak> so if we can find people or they keep their branches rebased, the commits will be consistent, else we'll have to cherry-pick
[2008/05/26 15:12:25] <jamesturnbull> yeah
[2008/05/26 15:12:51] <jamesturnbull> my simple document is getting longer... :P
[2008/05/26 15:12:53] <lak> ohadlevy: these facts are in the plugins dir, or in the libdir?
[2008/05/26 15:12:55] <lak> heh
[2008/05/26 15:13:03] <jamesturnbull> I'll email before i send to the list
[2008/05/26 15:13:16] <jamesturnbull> I'll include all the relevant commands and syntax too
[2008/05/26 15:13:20] <ohadlevy> factpath = $vardir/lib/puppet/facter
[2008/05/26 15:13:36] <ohadlevy> plugindest = $vardir/lib/puppet
[2008/05/26 15:13:41] <lak> ohadlevy: they should be in $vardir/lib/facter
[2008/05/26 15:13:52] <lak> that is, facter looks in $LIBDIR/facter, not puppet
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[2008/05/26 15:15:33] <ohadlevy> ok, thats just solve the facter -p, but it still doesnt solve that the facts are not loaded at first time
[2008/05/26 15:18:30] <lak> what do you mean by first time?
[2008/05/26 15:18:41] <lak> the first time puppetd runs, or the first run within a given process's lifetime?
[2008/05/26 15:18:54] <lak> you mean it downloads but doesn't load them into memory, but loads them the next time?
[2008/05/26 15:19:03] <ohadlevy> when i run a client for the first time (or just delete the /var/lib/puppet/lib dir)
[2008/05/26 15:19:13] <ohadlevy> yeah exactly
[2008/05/26 15:19:23] <ohadlevy> (second option)
[2008/05/26 15:22:53] <lak> hmm
[2008/05/26 15:25:25] <lak> jamesturnbull: ok, i've got a patch to send
[2008/05/26 15:25:30] <lak> what's my process for doing so?
[2008/05/26 15:25:51] <jamesturnbull> pastie: url me
[2008/05/26 15:26:14] <pastie> http://pastie.org/203288 by jamesturnbull.
[2008/05/26 15:26:43] <jamesturnbull> lak: that ^ is my notes thusfar
[2008/05/26 15:28:02] <lak> coolness
[2008/05/26 15:28:34] <jamesturnbull> I'll also add notes around branching and suggesting that those doing regular dev rebase frequently
[2008/05/26 15:29:34] <jamesturnbull> I see big nightmares in that area when we release 0.25 as so much has changed
[2008/05/26 15:29:47] <jamesturnbull> and someone is likely to fuck up
[2008/05/26 15:29:58] * jamesturnbull looks at pointedly at himself
[2008/05/26 15:30:02] <lak> heh
[2008/05/26 15:30:15] <lak> sounds good
[2008/05/26 15:30:34] <lak> it's clearly going to be a learning process for all involved, us the most, i expect
[2008/05/26 15:31:19] <jamesturnbull> I guess we're setting up the process for the future and so it'll we're probably over-engineering in a couple of places but better now than lateer
[2008/05/26 15:31:33] <jamesturnbull> damn keyboard
[2008/05/26 15:33:16] <lak> and we can always back it off if we need to
[2008/05/26 15:33:17] <jamesturnbull> lak: you still intend to swap master to stable?
[2008/05/26 15:33:23] <lak> really, i don't think this is much over-engineering
[2008/05/26 15:33:25] <lak> yeah
[2008/05/26 15:33:30] <jamesturnbull> lak: cool that helps
[2008/05/26 15:33:36] <lak> we keep getting commits against master that should be against 0.24.x
[2008/05/26 15:35:00] <jamesturnbull> yeah
[2008/05/26 15:35:07] <jamesturnbull> oh andrew took some tickets!
[2008/05/26 15:37:10] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1263 (enhancement created): Support client-side templates @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1263 (by luke@madstop.com)
[2008/05/26 15:37:18] <lak> yeah
[2008/05/26 15:37:28] <lak> i'm trying to send the related patch to the list, following your directions
[2008/05/26 15:37:34] <lak> not sure my local sendmail will work
[2008/05/26 15:37:39] <lak> on my laptop, i mean
[2008/05/26 15:39:52] @ Quit: shake-n-bake:
[2008/05/26 15:42:29] <jamesturnbull> ah hang on - have a look at http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitTips#head-a015948617d9becbdc9836776f96ad244ba87cb8
[2008/05/26 15:42:55] <lak> jamesturnbull: wtf does git format-patch put the patches?
[2008/05/26 15:43:01] <lak> claims its in PWD but it doesn't seem to be
[2008/05/26 15:43:08] <jamesturnbull> pwd
[2008/05/26 15:44:43] <lak> not for me :/
[2008/05/26 15:45:09] <jamesturnbull> lak: try -o
[2008/05/26 15:45:19] <jamesturnbull> lak: -o directoryname
[2008/05/26 15:45:45] <lak> it's just not working at all, really
[2008/05/26 15:45:48] <lak> i tried that, too
[2008/05/26 15:47:57] <jamesturnbull> git version?
[2008/05/26 15:49:18] <lak> 1.5.3.7
[2008/05/26 15:50:07] <lak> even choosing stdout i get nothing
[2008/05/26 15:50:13] <lak> do i need to be in 0.24.x to format it?
[2008/05/26 15:50:25] <lak> nope
[2008/05/26 15:52:04] <lak> the only thing i see missing so far (other than git format-patch working) is something to make it clear which branch a given patch should be against
[2008/05/26 15:52:11] <lak> anyway, patch sent
[2008/05/26 15:52:14] <lak> and i think it's my bed time
[2008/05/26 15:53:22] @ Quit: johnf: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[2008/05/26 15:53:50] <jamesturnbull> okay
[2008/05/26 15:54:00] <jamesturnbull> how do we make it clear?
[2008/05/26 15:54:19] <jamesturnbull> wish git did some kind of granular auth
[2008/05/26 15:57:33] <lak> what do you mean, granular auth?
[2008/05/26 15:57:42] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 15:58:40] <jamesturnbull> lak: bad way of describing it - sort of "stupidity check"
[2008/05/26 15:59:09] <lak> as in, don't let X person merge from Y to Z branch?
[2008/05/26 15:59:33] <jamesturnbull> "Are you really sure you want to merge this branch (which seems cloned from branchfoo) to branchblah (which seems to be cloned to branchbar)
[2008/05/26 16:00:06] <lak> yeah, that would be nice
[2008/05/26 16:00:29] <jamesturnbull> sort of common sense integrity roles/rules but I can't puzzle out if it'd work - might not given the distributed branchfulness of gut
[2008/05/26 16:01:31] <lak> i think it'd be something you'd want warnings vs errors
[2008/05/26 16:01:34] <jamesturnbull> s/gut/git/
[2008/05/26 16:01:38] <jamesturnbull> lak: yeah
[2008/05/26 16:01:51] <lak> e.g., you'd like to be able to say, we always go from 0.24.x to master, never master to 0.24.x
[2008/05/26 16:01:59] <jamesturnbull> branchfulness of gut is a whole other thing
[2008/05/26 16:02:00] <lak> so that if you tried the opposite, it did an "are you SURE?"
[2008/05/26 16:02:04] <lak> heh
[2008/05/26 16:02:07] <lak> branching there, very bad
[2008/05/26 16:02:10] <lak> merging, much worse
[2008/05/26 16:02:19] <jamesturnbull> lak: yeah
[2008/05/26 16:02:28] <jamesturnbull> you could probably script something for that
[2008/05/26 16:02:34] <jamesturnbull> the warnings
[2008/05/26 16:03:10] <lak> yeah
[2008/05/26 16:03:33] <lak> at the least, we could have a commit check that just looked for a commit that we know will never make it into 0.24.x
[2008/05/26 16:03:43] <lak> if that tries to get merged, *kaboom*
[2008/05/26 16:04:25] <lak> you could pretty easily distribute a config file and a commit hook that did that, and the config file would just be a per-branch commit
[2008/05/26 16:04:36] <lak> although that'd be failure not warning
[2008/05/26 16:04:44] <lak> anyway, now i really am off to bed
[2008/05/26 16:04:59] <jamesturnbull> k
[2008/05/26 16:05:01] <jamesturnbull> later mate
[2008/05/26 16:05:21] <fujin> andrewcshafer: hi, noticed you ninja'd a few of my tickets (that is cool) see the work I've done for #1200 / #1190 @ http://github.com/fujin/puppet/commits/fix1200 - let me know if they are of use to you
[2008/05/26 16:05:24] <gepetto> fujin: andrewcshafer: #1200 is http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1200 "puppetd exits when dns resolution fails and client doesn't have a certificate yet"
[2008/05/26 16:05:27] <gepetto> fujin: andrewcshafer: #1190 is http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1190 "Puppetd exits if it receives a bad certificate"
[2008/05/26 16:05:33] <fujin> afternoonn chaps
[2008/05/26 16:06:04] @ Quit: lak:
[2008/05/26 16:06:26] <MrProper_> fujin, afternoon
[2008/05/26 16:06:33] <MrProper_> fujin, what timezone?
[2008/05/26 16:06:53] <fujin> +12
[2008/05/26 16:07:01] <andrewcshafer> fujin: Reading now
[2008/05/26 16:07:11] <MrProper_> fujin, ahh +10 here
[2008/05/26 16:07:27] <fujin> andrewcshafer: I didn't think they'd be accepted w/out tests, but couldn't wrap my brain around speccing the binaries
[2008/05/26 16:07:32] <fujin> so left it at that (I know, I'm shit)
[2008/05/26 16:07:57] <fujin> ideally that whole block should be refactored somewhere else
[2008/05/26 16:08:23] <fujin> also should be 'until' instead of 'while !'
[2008/05/26 16:14:10] <andrewcshafer> fujin: cool, I hadn't dig into the code yet, I was just trying to plan what to work on this week and Luke suggested all the issues where puppetd exits
[2008/05/26 16:14:30] <andrewcshafer> s/dig/dug/
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[2008/05/26 16:27:39] <jamesturnbull> fujin: afternoon sir - how is the land of the long white cloud?
[2008/05/26 16:29:21] <jamesturnbull> fujin: some people here - johnf, possibly auxesis (though we haven't asked him yet) and some others have had discussions about an Aus/NZ Puppet hackfest - very early stages at this end but will let you know what progresses
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[2008/05/26 16:41:04] <msf> hrm.. is anyone else having a problem cloning the repos at reductivelabs.com ?
[2008/05/26 16:45:26] <jamesturnbull> msf: luke made some changes this morning - might be broken
[2008/05/26 16:45:34] <jamesturnbull> msf: send him an email
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[2008/05/26 16:49:12] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
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[2008/05/26 17:00:52] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 17:00:52] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
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[2008/05/26 17:34:38] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
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[2008/05/26 18:02:29] <silent> Hi. Can i use "interface", with freebsd???
[2008/05/26 18:02:32] <silent> I try so:
[2008/05/26 18:02:33] <silent> interface { "FE_A":
[2008/05/26 18:02:34] <silent> interface => lo,
[2008/05/26 18:02:36] <silent> ensure => present,
[2008/05/26 18:02:38] <silent> name => "192.168.1.2",
[2008/05/26 18:02:39] <silent> interface_type => alias;
[2008/05/26 18:02:41] <silent> }
[2008/05/26 18:02:42] <silent> debug: Retrieved catalog in 0.59 seconds
[2008/05/26 18:02:44] <silent> debug: Puppet::Type::Interface::ProviderRedhat: Not suitable: missing /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts
[2008/05/26 18:02:45] <silent> debug: Puppet::Type::Interface::ProviderSunos: Not suitable: kernel not in SunOS
[2008/05/26 18:02:47] <silent> err: Could not create FE_A: Could not find a default provider for interface
[2008/05/26 18:03:54] <thom> silent: pretty sure that no-one has written an interface provider for freebsd
[2008/05/26 18:04:16] <silent> :-(
[2008/05/26 18:04:31] <tim|imac> silent: see wiki:TypeReference#interface
[2008/05/26 18:04:50] <gepetto> tim|imac: silent: wiki:TypeReference#interface is http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference#interface
[2008/05/26 18:04:50] <tim|imac> is it just me, btw, or is the trac site sluggish?
[2008/05/26 18:05:32] <jamesturnbull> silent: iterface only works for solaris and red hat
[2008/05/26 18:06:06] <jamesturnbull> tim|imac: a little
[2008/05/26 18:06:15] <jamesturnbull> tim|imac: I am getting some "database locked" errors too
[2008/05/26 18:06:22] <kolla> hm, what makes redhat so special?
[2008/05/26 18:06:39] <tim|imac> haven't seen them yet, but only opened the type reference
[2008/05/26 18:06:55] <tim|imac> kolla: i guess it's the platform the developer for that native type works on ;-)
[2008/05/26 18:08:55] <kolla> ok, it just edits the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ethN?
[2008/05/26 18:10:13] <silent> maybe somebody knows a workaround?
[2008/05/26 18:10:14] <silent> How can I create an alias on the interface?
[2008/05/26 18:11:11] <kolla> my method is always to just .. copy in the appropriate file :)
[2008/05/26 18:11:22] <kolla> but I'm lazy
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[2008/05/26 18:21:09] <tim|imac> takes me ~10 seconds to load the type reference... most of the time
[2008/05/26 18:21:50] <tim|imac> the server doesn't seem to support gzip
[2008/05/26 18:21:57] <tim|imac> not sure if that is what's making it so slow
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[2008/05/26 18:33:58] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
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[2008/05/26 18:40:22] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 18:41:29] <jamesturnbull> kolla: happy for someone to expand the type
[2008/05/26 18:41:52] <jamesturnbull> kolla: not sure how feasible it'd be on other platforms - debian for example - that have more complicated network management interfaces
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[2008/05/26 19:01:02] <silent> Another question:
[2008/05/26 19:01:04] <silent> I have the tarball - dir_hier.tar.gz
[2008/05/26 19:01:05] <silent> Can I unpack it on the client host in the target directory?
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[2008/05/26 19:22:18] <tim|imac> silent: you could make an exec out of it, but that's not really a thing i would recommend you to do with puppet
[2008/05/26 19:37:20] <silent> tim|imac: ok. thanks.
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[2008/05/26 20:14:17] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:14:17] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle2 edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle2 (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
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[2008/05/26 20:18:48] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:48] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:48] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:48] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:48] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:49] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:49] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:49] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:18:49] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:25:48] <evil_steve> spam ho!
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[2008/05/26 20:32:17] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:35:55] <fujin> what we really need to do with the commitbot
[2008/05/26 20:36:02] <fujin> is submit commits to it, but only mail certain ones
[2008/05/26 20:36:19] <fujin> like have it store them in a db or something, and then if you press a button for the commit it'll mail it off to -commits
[2008/05/26 20:36:24] @ Quit: jsgotangco: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[2008/05/26 20:36:25] <jamesturnbull> evil_steve: not spam - edits
[2008/05/26 20:37:26] @ Quit: [newbie]: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[2008/05/26 20:42:30] <jamesturnbull> fujin: sounds good - when can you set that up?
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[2008/05/26 20:45:59] <fujin> jamesturnbull: I'll have to take a look at his code
[2008/05/26 20:46:03] <fujin> it's merb, so should be fine
[2008/05/26 20:46:22] * fujin watching peepcode rSpec screencast
[2008/05/26 20:46:46] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Development Lifecycle edited by jamtur01 @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/DevelopmentLifecycle (by james@lovedthanlost.net)
[2008/05/26 20:51:22] <jamesturnbull> fujin: I forgot the smiley but sure if you think you can do it
[2008/05/26 20:56:27] <fujin> ;]
[2008/05/26 20:56:30] <fujin> moment, uploading
[2008/05/26 21:04:39] <fujin> jamesturnbull:
[2008/05/26 21:04:41] <fujin> see pm
[2008/05/26 21:06:57] <jamesturnbull> fujin: okay - sorry just getting redmine running under glassfish
[2008/05/26 21:15:12] <fujin> glassfish?
[2008/05/26 21:18:35] <fujin> arrgh
[2008/05/26 21:18:37] <fujin> too many javas
[2008/05/26 21:28:04] <jamesturnbull> fujin: yeah and a good collection of weird weird weird error messages
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[2008/05/26 21:49:55] @ Quit: sparanjape: "It's a dud! It's a dud! It's a du..."
[2008/05/26 21:50:43] <fujin> wow, autotest is cool
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[2008/05/26 23:27:45] <jamesturnbull> fujin: autotest may be but rubygems I hate thee with the passion of a thousand fiery hells
[2008/05/26 23:40:51] <thom> rubygems do seem to have been designed with a stunning disregard for practicality, deployability or usefulness
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[2008/05/26 23:47:08] <fujin> agree
[2008/05/26 23:47:19] <fujin> although if you go to gems-only, things become slightly easier
[2008/05/26 23:47:24] <fujin> all of the ruby stuff I do out of gems
[2008/05/26 23:47:28] <fujin> and the rest out of git
[2008/05/26 23:49:18] <jamesturnbull> fujin: it's the speed of the gem install on my VMs
[2008/05/26 23:49:30] <jamesturnbull> fujin: I've been waiting for rails to install for about 30 minutes now
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[2008/05/26 23:57:48] <keithlard> hey ho
[2008/05/26 23:58:01] <keithlard> gem2rpm. it's the way of the future!

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