| [2008/05/15 00:04:34] <technogeeky> you there Luke? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:04:50] <lak> yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:05:06] <technogeeky> I posted a problem earlier; let me pastie it; can you take a quick gander? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:05:08] @ [newbie] is now known as f--z | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:05:38] <technogeeky> lak: http://pastie.caboo.se/196779 | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:07:11] <lak> my guess is you have a fileserver.conf and don't have the plugins mount specified in it | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:07:13] <lak> or something like that | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:07:41] <lak> i can't remember (because i haven't had my coffee yet) whether you have to specify it, or if it sets up auto-allow permissions | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:07:42] <technogeeky> it has the [plugins] mount, and I've tried that blank and using IP-based allow rules | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:08:06] <technogeeky> coffee good, lol :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:09:00] <lak> try hostname based rules, or just 'allow *' | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:11:25] <technogeeky> I've actually never been around this channel, but I have some partially developed tools that I wrote to supplement puppet and provide a few things that I wanted: a namespaced, distributed module system (using git and a superset of rubygems); some attempted (aka unfinished) configurations to allow an implicit understanding of the distrbution/os/version and a useful abstraction thereof. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:11:54] <technogeeky> I have to work on some more basic stuff at the moment (damn work), but eventually I'll be getting back to you to work on those tooks and understand how they could be useful to others | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:12:10] <technogeeky> ok, i'll try that | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:12:12] @ brscott joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:13:20] <technogeeky> same. i'll post the entire log, and my config. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:16:12] @ Quit: aiurea: "Leaving" | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:16:14] <lak> technogeeky: you gotta hang out more and post about your stuff | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:16:19] <lak> lots going on here :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:17:22] <technogeeky> yeah. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:17:55] <technogeeky> I'm actually a subordinate of someone who hangs out here and has done puppet work (he's from the College of Computing @ Georgia Tech) - one of the guys who was going to go to your training session. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:18:01] <lak> ah | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:18:11] <technogeeky> I'm the brains behind him, so to speak :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:18:13] <lak> yeah, chadh, i presume | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:18:16] <lak> heh, nice | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:18:16] <technogeeky> yep. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:18:34] <technogeeky> I got him interested in puppet, and did some early development, but got sidetracked and haven't really touched it until the last week or so | ||
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| [2008/05/15 00:20:48] <technogeeky> Our infrastructure is pretty challenging; we have a wide variety of machines (RH8,9, RHEL3-6, Fedora 4-7, soon 8, Solaris 8-10, OSX, and Windows); we intend for our results to manage all of them to some extent (aka "as much as possible") | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:21:32] <technogeeky> About 3000 machines in total, I think. Plus some supercomputing clusters (ranging from a dozen to hundreds of nodes). | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:21:57] <technogeeky> I actually plan on finding a way to port as much of puppet's functionality to windows as possible :o | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:22:09] <technogeeky> That's a pretty lofty one, though. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:22:49] @ shake-n-bake joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:23:05] <lak> that'd be cool | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:23:18] <lak> yeah, i know one of the guys working there in supercomputing, bartosz | ||
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| [2008/05/15 00:25:37] <fdz> Hi lak, i'm looking for a way to set correct permissions and ownership on a file created by the parsedfile provider | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:25:39] <technogeeky> here's some more info: http://pastie.caboo.se/196783 | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:25:42] <technogeeky> still no change | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:25:57] <lak> fdz: just manage the metadata of the file with a file resource | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:25:59] <lak> it won't conflict | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:27:03] <ashp> urgh I really need to improve my filesystems module as i'm tired of the 5 minute timeout on it's attempt to wrongly mount /home on boxes that can't use nfs | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:27:09] <lak> technogeeky: the error you're getting is an authorization error | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:27:24] <fdz> lak: ok, but should I create that file resource automatically in my type, or should it be done manually by the user ? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:27:44] <lak> i don't think i understand your question | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:29:45] <lak> technogeeky: i said you're using 0.24.4, right? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:29:47] <fdz> i mean, is possible to create this file resource in ruby code directly in my ssh-authorized-key type ? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:30:23] <lak> oh | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:30:30] <lak> yeah, it is | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:30:34] <lak> use the 'generate' hook | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:30:49] <lak> it should just return the correct resource | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:31:39] <technogeeky> lak: yes, I am | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:32:25] <technogeeky> I figured that it was my error; if it's an actual bug then I am more than willing to debug it out. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:32:32] <technogeeky> I just posted and went AFK for a while | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:32:51] @ shenson_not_here is now known as shenson | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:33:42] <lak> i don't think it's a bug | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:33:49] <lak> because lots of people are successfully using plugins | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:33:59] <lak> there's just something about how you've got it set up that's causing a problem | ||
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| [2008/05/15 00:34:25] <duritong> yeah i also had this problem, but then it sudenly went away | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:34:41] <duritong> unfortunately i didn't remember what i have done exactly | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:34:43] <duritong> :-/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:35:51] <technogeeky> rut roh | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:37:15] <lak> yeah, that's always bad | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:38:00] <technogeeky> the worst kind of bugs are the ones that are smart enough to solve themselves. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:38:50] <technogeeky> Off the top of your head, would this have something to do with the way that the fileservers.conf mechanism handles hosts that aren't fully qualified (ie, single-word hosts)? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:39:06] @ Quit: shake-n-bake: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:39:27] <technogeeky> I put in "allow jefferson" (the name of this host) in there, and it says that's an invalid pattern. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:40:12] <ashp> Shame I cant use unless and onlyif => as metaparameters | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:40:17] <ashp> as for a change that would be really useful :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:41:26] <ashp> I wanted to be able to do an unless => and then check i can ping the nfs server first, as i'm tired of the long timeouts | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:41:35] <technogeeky> wow. I just caused a sequence of events I realy don't understand. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:41:40] <technogeeky> *really | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:41:48] <ashp> technogeeky: sounds like 99% of my day :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:42:17] <technogeeky> haha | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:42:49] <technogeeky> Without changing any configuration, I changed the hostname of this machine (both puppetmaster and client) form 'jefferson' to 'jefferson.test', signed the CA, | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:43:02] <ashp> lak: Can I have onlyif as a metaparameter to give me more control over if things should occur :/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:43:05] <technogeeky> and now the mount problem still exists, but it actually *does* the work that it wasn't doing before. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:45:28] <lak> ashp: it's probably a good idea to add it | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:45:33] <lak> i just kinda haven't thought about it enough | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:46:42] <lak> technogeeky: maybe try pinging me this afternoon, when my brain is fully functional | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:46:55] <technogeeky> haha. ok. I'll be working on it in the meanwhile. | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:47:15] <technogeeky> To clear up, where do I expect the plugins to be copied by default? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:47:33] <technogeeky> /var/lib/puppet/plugins? | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:47:57] <ashp> lak: I can't see any real downside and it lets you do local tests before executing stuff, in my case I wanted a faster way to check if the server should be trying to use nfs or not | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:48:16] <ashp> and it really depends on the firewall rules so theres no obvious or easy way to check outside of a quick showmount or something | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:48:25] <lak> technogeeky: given your setup, it looks like it, but you should actually set your plugindest == libdir | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:50:21] <technogeeky> The documentation on the wiki seems conflicting, at least the PluginModules page is non-default: | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:52:04] <technogeeky> The ConfigurationReference has the variable plugindest defaulting to $libdir (which is implicitly defaulted to $vardir/lib, and $vardir in my case is /var/lib/puppet; but it defaults to /var/puppet (this must be a debian override?)) | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:52:48] <technogeeky> but http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/PluginsInModules suggests plugindest should be $vardir/lib/puppet | ||
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| [2008/05/15 00:53:39] <technogeeky> which would be $libdir/puppet by default (which seems strange in the first place, at least in Debian), but in my case it would be /var/lib/puppet/lib/puppet | ||
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| [2008/05/15 00:58:22] <lak> technogeeky: hmm, it shouldn't end in 'puppet', but... | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:58:34] <lak> the libdir is a standard ruby lib directory, and these are all puppet-related classes | ||
| [2008/05/15 00:58:47] <lak> so they need to be in a puppet/ subdirectory for ruby to find them correctly | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:01:40] <technogeeky> Sounds reasonable. It does appear that there is a bug of some sort; the fileserver.conf won't allow single hostnames whatsoever (which might be related to the bugfix that fixed 'allow *' to work?) | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:01:45] <technogeeky> i'll investigate that in a sec | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:02:05] <technogeeky> yep, that was it | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:02:26] <technogeeky> somewhere along the line, there is a lack of support for hostnames that don't have any TLDs or anything | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:02:32] <lak> ah | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:02:37] <lak> well, that should be easy enough to fix | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:02:49] <technogeeky> yep, looking into it. I'll submit a patch. | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:03:02] <technogeeky> yep, that fixed my problem too | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:10:29] @ Quit: _newbie_: Client Quit | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:13:56] @ Quit: f--z: "KVIrc 3.2.5 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/" | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:18:11] @ andrewcshafer_ is now known as andrewcshafer | ||
| [2008/05/15 01:22:51] <hacim> jamesturnbull: yeah, i haven't had an ounce of time to try any of that, work has been kicking my ass | ||
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| [2008/05/15 01:33:43] <ashp> I should buy a book on selinux, I kind of feel | ||
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| [2008/05/15 01:39:12] <keithlard> hey | ||
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| [2008/05/15 01:45:55] <thegcat> should I be able to install localy stored rpms with the rpm provider? | ||
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| [2008/05/15 02:02:54] <sigmonsays> does puppet have the abilityto include a directory of files and process them like a require() ? I want the /etc/httpd/conf.d/ functionality style | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:03:46] <Volcane> thegcat: yes, i think there was a sample today on the list, might be wrong thoguh | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:04:01] <Volcane> but the source param can take all sorts of urls including file:// | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:04:32] <Volcane> afaik | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:05:41] <thegcat> ah, it has to be file:// | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:05:43] <thegcat> ok | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:15:18] <jason^> how would i recreate my puppetmaster ssl cert and key? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:16:17] <duritong> delete them | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:16:22] <duritong> and restart the master | ||
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| [2008/05/15 02:35:54] <sigmonsays> if you can, it's easy to rm -rf /var/lib/puppet/ssl on puppet and master | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:36:08] <sigmonsays> I did because it was troublesome troubleshooting ssl negotiation issues | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:38:09] <sigmonsays> what kind of dependancy handling does puppet have? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:38:14] <sigmonsays> is any of it automagic? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:38:30] @ Quit: trombik_: Client Quit | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:42:41] <technogeeky> lak: you around? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:42:51] <lak> kind of | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:43:29] <lak> sigmonsays: what do you mean? you can specify resource dependencies using require/before/etc | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:43:43] <technogeeky> In puppet/network/parser.rb, you have a link to: http://snurl.com/21zf8 | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:43:46] <technogeeky> Which talks about memory leaks, etc | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:43:47] <sigmonsays> lak. that's what I mean. I just can't find an example off it | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:44:00] <technogeeky> but it's listed in the comments of: # Convert the name to a common pattern. | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:44:00] <technogeeky> def munge_name(name) | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:44:00] <technogeeky> # LAK:NOTE http://snurl.com/21zf8 [groups_google_com] | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:44:00] <technogeeky> x = name.downcase.split(".").reverse | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:44:01] <technogeeky> end | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:44:45] <technogeeky> While that code isn't necessarily buggy or anything (i'm adding a new case statement to the parse and changing the TLD parser a bit), do I need to run that on my results> | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:44:50] <lak> sigmonsays: look in the wiki:TypeReference at the metaparameter docs | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:45:28] <gepetto> lak: sigmonsays: wiki:TypeReference is http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:45:28] <lak> technogeeky: i don't understand your question; run what? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:45:49] <technogeeky> Why are you calling .reverse there? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:46:15] <technogeeky> That would seem to take a domain, downcase it, get the first part (the hostname) and then reverse it? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:46:16] <lak> what file is this? there's no network/parser.rb | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:46:33] <technogeeky> excuse me, lol: network/authstore.rb | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:46:36] <lak> ah | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:46:52] <sigmonsays> thx lak ang gepetto | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:47:01] <lak> yeah, it returns an array of the hostname, in reverse | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:47:13] <lak> so you can more easily match things like *.madstop.com | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:47:24] <lak> since you just iterate over ["com", "*"] and compare | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:48:59] <technogeeky> makes sense. | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:49:31] <technogeeky> I was worried, I guess, that I would end up calling munge_name("testhost") and that it would reverse the hostname, but it will reverse a single element array | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:50:08] <lak> it doesn't modify the name, it creates a new array and reverses it (whch actually creates a new array, also) | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:52:13] <technogeeky> I was thinking along the lines of something like split(/./,0) in perl, and thinking that it's all strings | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:52:24] <technogeeky> which confused me :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:53:47] <lak> ah | ||
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| [2008/05/15 02:58:59] <sigmonsays> wow, puppetmasterd doesnt need to be reloaded when changing manifest files? | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:59:06] @ Quit: mikearr: Remote closed the connection | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:59:21] <Volcane> sigmonsays: that would be most annoying if it was the case :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:59:23] <technogeeky> sigmonsays: my past few hours of experience says no | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:59:30] <sigmonsays> ;-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 02:59:40] <Volcane> sometimes it has issues picking up new node files though | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:03:40] <sigmonsays> i'm getting ready to use inheritence. | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:04:16] <sigmonsays> if I understand correctly, having a file { "/etc/foobar" : mode => 0777 } in class1 will be overridden in class2 right? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:04:27] <sigmonsays> (assuming class2 contains the same file line) | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:04:50] <lak> sigmonsays: you need to use a different syntax: File["/etc/foobar"] { mode => override } | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:10:22] <sigmonsays> lak, I don't follow. How do I set the mode to override | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:10:40] <lak> using that syntax | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:10:50] <lak> look at the wiki:LanguageTutorial | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:10:54] <gepetto> lak: wiki:LanguageTutorial is http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/LanguageTutorial | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:11:00] <sigmonsays> I did | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:11:20] <lak> it's got examples, right? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:12:03] <sigmonsays> yah | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:12:46] <lak> and they weren't sufficient? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:13:13] <sigmonsays> i'm sorry. I lost ya because I thought "override" was a keyword | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:13:19] <sigmonsays> I see the difference now | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:13:29] <lak> ah, sorry | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:21:14] <sigmonsays> is the order items are applied arbitrary? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:21:25] <sigmonsays> I have two classes, a common class to setups a solid core and then a more specific class | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:21:42] <sigmonsays> it seems my stuff in common doesn't run before the more specific class | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:22:11] <sigmonsays> like node 'node1' { include "class1"; include "class2" } | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:22:30] <windowsrefund> you should be defining requirements | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:22:34] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1220 (defect created): fileserver.conf (parsed by network/authstore.rb) will not accept sing... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1220 (by technogeeky@gmail.com) | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:22:50] <sigmonsays> like the require => before after thing? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:22:59] <windowsrefund> so in class2, you'd need to add require => statements that point to resources in class1 | ||
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| [2008/05/15 03:23:14] <sigmonsays> gotcha | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:23:26] <sigmonsays> seems like it'd run in order | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:25:04] <sigmonsays> I can't do that on a while class can I? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:25:20] <sigmonsays> class www_server { require => Class["common"] } | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:25:24] <sigmonsays> that give syntax | ||
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| [2008/05/15 03:36:43] <plathrop> sigmonsays: You should be able to do that in recent versions. There are a couple of threads about it on the list... | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:37:22] <sigmonsays> gotcha. Hmm | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:37:51] <sigmonsays> 0.22.4 pretty old? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:38:54] @ Quit: jvanzyl: | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:40:53] <technogeeky> lak: http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1220 | ||
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| [2008/05/15 03:41:31] <lak> ok | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:41:45] <technogeeky> If you agree with my regex change (the case addition being a seperate matter), let me know if you think there will be many more occurances of this and I can hunt for them. | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:41:46] <lak> i do get emailed when any ticket gets opened, just so you know :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:41:59] <lak> i'm eating lunch right now, will look in a few | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:42:00] <technogeeky> I figured :) I was just following up to the conversation here :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:44:46] <plathrop> sigmonsays: very old... I highly recommend upgrading | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:45:18] <sigmonsays> how often do we version jump? | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:45:38] <sigmonsays> the rpm repo on the download page says it's considered testing still | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:46:31] <holoway> fujin: re mongrel_runit on github | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:46:34] <holoway> I'll toss it up today | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:47:14] <holoway> probably wouldn't hurt to put the directions for running puppetmasterd's with it out, either | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:52:37] <plathrop> sigmonsays: Well, I can't say much about RPMs but Puppet is a rapidly-moving target. However, I haven't run into any major problems keeping up with new versions. | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:52:43] <plathrop> sigmonsays: That said, others have. | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:53:19] <holoway> fujin: http://github.com/adamhjk/mongrel_runit/tree/master | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:56:01] <sigmonsays> alright | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:56:09] <sigmonsays> thank goodness it was easy to build the rpm :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 03:57:08] @ Quit: shake-n-bake_: | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:00:50] @ shake-n-bake joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:04:33] @ Quit: andrewcshafer: | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:10:53] @ Quit: keithlard: | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:13:19] <sigmonsays> so I upgraded to 0.24.4 and I still can't get class www_server { requires => Class["common"] } | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:14:32] <sigmonsays> s/requires/require/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:15:31] <sigmonsays> I guess i'll apply it to specific resources, it's just lame | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:16:42] <plathrop> sigmonsays: I totally misunderstood what you were asking for. Yeah, you have to apply it to the resources, not the whole class. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:16:51] <plathrop> Sorry about that. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:16:54] @ Quit: randybias: | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:17:10] <sigmonsays> how do you control the order classes are applied? | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:17:28] <plathrop> sigmonsays: You don't. resources have ordering, classes (currently) don't. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:17:41] <sigmonsays> gotcha | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:17:48] <plathrop> You should get in the habit of setting up explicit relationships between your resources anyway. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:17:54] <plathrop> Of course, holoway disagrees :-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:18:02] <sigmonsays> hehe | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:18:40] <plathrop> Regardless of the 'ideal', though, as the language stands now you need to do dependencies on a per-resource level. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:19:09] <plathrop> You *could* use defaults, but I don't know that you want to go down that path. That way lies madness. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:19:25] <sigmonsays> it makes sense | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:19:32] <sigmonsays> I just figured i'd find a way to be more abstract | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:19:35] <sigmonsays> ;-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:19:50] <sigmonsays> less code is good IMO | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:20:31] @ andrewcshafer joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:28:48] <holoway> plathrop: I don't disagree that you absolutely should do that in puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:29:12] <holoway> plathrop: I just disagree that without it cats and dogs will start living together :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:29:30] <sigmonsays> I thought it was supposed to rain cats and dogs | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:29:41] @ sigmonsays is now known as sigmonsays-afk | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:29:47] @ roald joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:31:38] <plathrop> holoway: I was mostly poking fun :-P Sorry | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:32:11] @ kolla joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:32:37] <holoway> plathrop: don't be sorry, poking fun is good :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:32:48] <holoway> there is absolutely 0 bad blood or soreness here | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:32:57] <holoway> we just disagree, and that's totally fine | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:34:06] <holoway> (although, for the record, I still don't think the only way to solve large scale manifest ordering issues is with a directed graph and topological sort) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:34:09] <holoway> :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:34:17] <plathrop> Yeah, it's all good. :-D | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:37:20] @ technogeeky left channel #puppet () | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:37:35] <holoway> at this point, I think I just make luke sleepy | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:37:57] <lak> well, if we can't convince each other after this much talk, it seems pretty intractable | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:13] <lak> and i'd much rather just move on and prove myself right through action, which seems to be the only thing that ever does | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:16] <holoway> lak: but cordial and cooperative! I'll still buy you scotch and submit patches | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:28] <holoway> lak: exactly | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:33] <lak> puppet's whole existence is because of my attempt to prove myself right in the face of LISA doubters, so i'm used to it :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:44] <lak> and i will still drink your scotch and apply your patches :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:53] <ashp> scotch is the most important part of this friendship | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:59] <ashp> more important than patches! | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:38:59] <lak> heh | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:05] <holoway> and I still talk as effusively as I can in public about puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:13] <holoway> because it is awesome | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:14] <lak> well, there's actually a scotch to patch exchange rate | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:19] <holoway> ha! | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:20] <plathrop> Puppet == teh Awesome. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:23] <lak> if people write more patches, i can drink more scotch | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:45] <plathrop> lak: unless they write those patches after drinking too much scotch... | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:52] <lak> well, yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:39:58] <lak> the scotch is for *me*, duh | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:40:10] <plathrop> Wait. Did I really just use the phrase "too much scotch"? As if there were such a thing! | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:40:17] <holoway> I think it's good we had the discussion in public, though, because it taught a lot of people about puppet's higher-order ideals | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:40:33] <plathrop> Hell, yeah. That thread was deeply educational. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:40:49] <lak> yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:40:59] <lak> "you mean luke isn't just making this crap up as he goes? well i'll be" | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:41:19] <holoway> neither of us are makig it up as we go | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:41:34] <plathrop> lak: Actually, I knew you weren't making it up. But I learned a lot more in-depth what you *were* thinking. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:41:38] <holoway> I think it would be hard to accuse either of us of not understanding | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:41:42] <lak> yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:41:58] <holoway> and we actually do diverge, but it's very very late in the game | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:41:59] @ jvanzyl joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:42:03] @ _newbie_ joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:42:06] <holoway> just an important part of the end-game, that's all | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:42:13] <plathrop> :-P | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:42:23] <plathrop> Anyway, lunch time. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:43:24] <ashp> I just want everyone else to do the hard work so my job is nice and easy and I can drink scotch at lunchtime. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:43:38] <holoway> ashp: we're working on it! :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:43:43] <holoway> how is iclassify coming for you? | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:45:45] @ Quit: jshare: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:46:10] @ jshare joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:46:38] <holoway> btw, Jessie and I did a podcast talking about building automated infrastructure | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:46:40] <holoway> http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail3656.html | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:46:47] <holoway> a solid puppet section in there | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:47:58] <lak> i saw the link this morning, on jesse's blog i think | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:47:58] <lak> cool | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:48:44] @ shake-n-bake_ joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:52:32] @ technogeeky joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:53:31] <technogeeky> lak: what is your reasoning behind your dislike of rubygems? | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:53:45] <lak> 1) they install ruby files in a place ruby doesn't look for them | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:53:53] <lak> 2) they replace my executables with crap | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:53:54] <technogeeky> agreed | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:54:03] <holoway> 3) they monkeypatch 'require' | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:54:08] <lak> 3) until recently they weren't smart enough to know if you were running on windows or *nix | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:54:13] <machpo> http://www.madstop.com/ruby/ruby_has_a_distribution_problem.html | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:54:23] <technogeeky> yeah. That's what inspired the question. | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:54:42] <Volcane> if you're comitted to a distro that has a packaging method already - rpm,deb,whatever - everything that goes on the box should be in the realm of that packaging system | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:54:51] <technogeeky> Volcane: I disagree | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:54:55] <holoway> I think a lot of what's busted in rubygems could be fixed with removing the "I can have N versions installed on the same host" requirement | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:55:14] <holoway> but that's a core design thing now, so we're doomed. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:55:33] <holoway> which is why you have to do crazy things like break binaries | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:56:02] <Volcane> technogeeky: only place where its acceptible is if your distro provides a place specifically for hand installed stuff such as /opt, or perhaps /usr/local etc, but never into a place rpm/dep/etc manages | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:56:19] <chadh> Logan and I are trying to figure out how to update IB switch firmware | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:56:26] <chadh> heh. wrong window | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:56:31] <lak> 4) they make the world more complicated for the rare case, rather than default -- most people never install multiple versions of the same package, and most of their suckiness is because they have that ability | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:57:39] <Volcane> lak: heh, have u seen the mess thats sco openserver packaging with their many versions of anything per box setup? | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:57:51] <lak> thankfully no | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:57:54] @ shake-n-bake__ joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:57:59] <technogeeky> My interest is in distributed, namespaced Puppet module system that vastly increases the code re-use and simultaneously allows namespace "inheritance" to occur, creating generalized modules (as a side effect, I think you'll find that this system must have some knowledge of os/distribution relationships) | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:58:16] <holoway> technogeeky: I do something like that | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:58:31] <technogeeky> holoway: oh? | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:58:46] <holoway> yep - we have modules we distribute to clients, and they can selectively override pieces | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:59:05] <holoway> we tie it together with a rakefile that handles updating the puppet master properly | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:59:08] <holoway> with the aggregate set | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:59:14] <holoway> I can think of sexier ways | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:59:17] <holoway> but it totally works well | ||
| [2008/05/15 04:59:29] <technogeeky> My original solution (which doesn't work, it still doesn't even pass its own tests) was basically that modules (as puppet defined them around 0.22 or 0.23) would be wrapped in a trivial rubygem as well as being a git repository) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:00:27] <Volcane> lak: *everything* goes into /opt/blah/blah/package-version, even stuff thats in /bin etc, and it makes symlinks to the current active package and u can decide the active version etc. madness | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:00:27] <technogeeky> rubygems was envisoned in that spot to be able to enforce complex versioning requirements (which could be overridden by branching/merging) and "ease of distribution" | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:00:48] @ Quit: markl__: "Lost terminal" | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:00:52] <holoway> technogeeky: right | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:06] <technogeeky> holoway: is your system available for viewing? | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:09] <technogeeky> If not, can I get a copy of it? :O | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:16] <holoway> technogeeky: absolutely you can | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:25] <holoway> I'll need to do some sanitizing | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:36] <technogeeky> holoway: I would very much appreciate it. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:44] <holoway> it is *really* simple | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:49] @ pleemans joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:52] <holoway> like, the simplest possible way to solve the problem | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:01:56] <holoway> basically like managing vendor branches | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:02:05] <technogeeky> well, we do something very similar, i suppose | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:02:09] <lak> Volcane: that's actually a pretty common mgmt methodology | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:02:34] <Volcane> lak: nods, but unusual to see it in /bin etc | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:02:46] <lak> true | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:02:49] <lak> and i don't miss it | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:02:53] <lak> debian kind of fixed that | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:02:55] <technogeeky> We have a tremendous variety of systems in our setup so we came up with a way to infer OS/distro information and we override manifests based on that. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:03:02] <lak> "wow, sane packaging that's easy to manage?" | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:03:44] <holoway> technogeeky: yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:03:52] <technogeeky> lak: I agree with rubygems is flawed to a degree for managing language modules | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:03:52] <holoway> we do less overriding of manifests | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:04:09] <holoway> and more using the built-in remotefile and template stuff to handle the differences | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:04:16] @ kambiz joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:04:23] <lak> technogeeky: i can see why you're looking at it, tho | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:04:27] @ technogeeky left channel #puppet () | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:04:35] <lak> we need some kind of cross-platform way of distributing puppet modules | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:05:01] @ Quit: shake-n-bake_: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:05:08] @ technogeeky joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:05:28] <technogeeky> doh! can anyone resend any messages I might have missed? I just closed my browser on accident | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:05:28] <holoway> fwiw, I really think the way to approach that is something conceptually like vendor branches | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:05:45] <holoway> since most puppet modules aren't re-usable without some local modification | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:06:09] <holoway> (since you may embedd information about other parts of the infrastructure that may not be in use elsewhere, for example) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:06:11] <technogeeky> holoway: I think that second statement is a bit misleading, and I hope that the truthfulness of that decreases over time. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:06:35] <holoway> technogeeky: it will in some ways, and it won't in others | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:06:43] <technogeeky> Right. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:06:47] <holoway> :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:07:40] <technogeeky> But I would like to see a much further degree of abstraction to allow creators of new modules to more easily integrate functionality of existing modules | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:09:00] <lak> technogeeky: i just agreed that we need something like that | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:09:20] <technogeeky> lak: I'm not sure if I'll beat you guys to the punch, but I am certain that I can help. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:09:33] <lak> hey, there's no punch here, i just want it done :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:10:25] <technogeeky> Chad and I are both programmers, but he can perform sysadmin work much more quickly and understands it more, while I much prefer to work on the abstract problems and the progamming. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:10:29] @ technogeeky left channel #puppet () | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:10:49] @ technogeeky joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:10:53] <lak> sweet! | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:11:02] <lak> we need more "i can sysadmin but i'm a programmer" types :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:11:10] <technogeeky> :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:11:50] <chadh> lak: yeah, I am amazed by the number of sysadmins that don't have cs backgrounds (not that there is anything wrong with that, just surprising to me) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:12:04] <technogeeky> Before working on this, I spent we spent a better part of a year understanding the "identity managment" problem and the associated ills (esp. in managing a diverse, sprawling environment like a modern college) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:12:13] <lak> heh, well, frankly -- the ones with cs backgrounds are often pretty scary :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:12:19] <technogeeky> s/I spent we/we/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:12:29] <technogeeky> Color us scary. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:12:43] <lak> what i mean is, they solve all problems with code, but they don't think like modern programmers | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:12:59] <lak> e.g., a guy i knew who had a 160k line perl script -- all in one file -- that he'd written to manage his infrastructure | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:13:34] <technogeeky> You're saying this guy is a CS guy? | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:13:44] @ Quit: shake-n-bake: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:13:52] <lak> yep, and proud of it | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:13:53] @ holoway is now known as holoway-away | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:13:56] <lak> haughty and everything | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:14:00] <technogeeky> heh. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:14:14] <technogeeky> One day I'll find a way to show you what the infrastructure we're replacing is like. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:14:17] @ randybias joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:14:25] <lak> heh | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:14:31] <holoway-away> technogeeky: send an email to adam@hjksolutions.com | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:14:35] <lak> i'm not *that* hard to get down to atlanta :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:14:37] <holoway-away> and I'll reply with what we're doing | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:15:06] <technogeeky> lak: haha. It's pretty profoundly disgusting. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:15:20] <lak> oooh, travel *and* disgust, who can resist? :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:15:22] <technogeeky> Granted, it was written between 1988 and 1995 | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:15:59] <technogeeky> Custom account managment, identity mangment, configuration managment, patch managment, and ticketing system | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:16:08] <technogeeky> Almost all in bash and perl. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:16:24] <lak> teh awesome | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:16:35] <lak> hey, at least it's not hundred-line awk scripts :/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:16:45] <holoway-away> and it works, which says something | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:16:54] <technogeeky> holoway: yes, it works. sort of. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:16:54] * holoway-away is bad at being away, clearly | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:17:03] @ Quit: shake-n-bake__: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:17:36] <technogeeky> It was well before its time. But now I'm the only person left with any knowledge of its inner workings, and I didn't have anything to do with it whatsoever. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:18:19] <chadh> technogeeky: hey! | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:18:22] <technogeeky> lak: there are a few wonderful portions that do unix->active directory control by SSHing into a windows machine and running DSMOD commands using expect. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:18:29] <technogeeky> chadh: hey! | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:20:05] <technogeeky> holoway-away: will do. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:21:58] @ shake-n-bake joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:28:46] <jason^> my puppetmasterd runs on an ubuntu server, so i need to recreate my ssl key, correct? | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:29:46] @ Quit: _newbie_: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:30:14] <jason^> because of the openssl issue that created 1 out of 266k keys | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:30:22] @ Quit: kolla: Remote closed the connection | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:32:04] <technogeeky> jason: yes | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:32:51] <technogeeky> I'm not sure I parse your second comment correctly, but the key must be regenerated. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:33:02] @ Wakko666 joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:36:05] <technogeeky> Lak: other things I have written down (from my notes written several months ago): | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:37:49] <jason^> yeah i don't know the best way to recreate everything :-/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:13] <jason^> i guess i could create a *new* server | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:15] <jason^> that might work | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:25] <lak> jason^: remove the existing keys, restart the master | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:34] <lak> really, remove the ssldir on all of your puppet machines | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:41] <jason^> i'll have to touch each client | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:45] <lak> yep | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:47] <lak> no avoiding that | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:48] <jason^> i'm just lazy :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:55] <jason^> ok i'll do it the hard way | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:38:58] <lak> you're removing the ability for them to authenticate | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:39:02] <lak> with that gone, you're kinda stuck | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:39:04] <jason^> yeah i know | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:39:06] <technogeeky> jason: use your current puppet infrastructure to kill the keys | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:39:09] <technogeeky> on the clients | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:39:29] <technogeeky> obv. chicken-egg thing here, but cron could be your friend :o | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:39:45] <jason^> yeah that could work | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:40:19] @ thegcat_ joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:40:27] <jason^> thankfully i don't have a large install base yet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:41:05] <technogeeky> - puppet would do well to have a handholding usability tool; be it in the form of IDE support with code completion, a set of command line tools, or whatever - something like FISH (http://www.fishshell.org/screenshots.html). | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:41:58] <technogeeky> The puppet API is quite honestly one of the most elegant creations I've seen, but one can only hold so much information in your head at one time and the API/docs contribute heavily to slowdown. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:42:58] <technogeeky> (This isn't brownnosing. I'm actually surprised, having read your cfengine thoughts and your config.managment turing document, that something so simple and yet so powerful came from the same mind) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:43:30] <technogeeky> Because the turing approach/analysis leads to terrible complexity, IMO :o | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:44:30] <technogeeky> - Another interesting tool would be one that can reverse the puppet process; that is, given an existing computer and some modules, create manifests that resemble the machine as closely as possible. I thnk this might be pretty easy, actually. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:44:51] <lak> technogeeky: it's already done -- ralsh | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:44:56] <lak> at least, it's 90% done | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:45:38] <technogeeky> I'm not sure if I saw ralsh when I wrote this stuff. I'll check it out for sure. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:45:58] <lak> so i clearly agree with your vision, and we're hoping to make some decent gui tools to make it easier | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:46:48] <technogeeky> You and I agree on quite a bit, to be honest. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:47:25] <technogeeky> Some if the ideas that you expressed forcefully through puppet I discovered during my research on IdentityManagment problems (regarding service/resource allocation) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:47:50] @ Quit: ssm: Remote closed the connection | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:48:01] @ ssm joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:48:13] <lak> cool | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:48:30] <lak> i don't think it's all that crazy, but for a while there, i was apparently the only one who didn't think that | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:48:56] <technogeeky> I was envisioning a tool that, given a machine (without puppet(d/master)) with some configuration, you could put a tool on that would be able to basically produce the manifest as best as it can | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:49:31] @ Quit: thegcat: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:49:57] <technogeeky> I read a long time ago your hesitence on namespacing modules; what is the current state of that? | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:50:22] <lak> i like it | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:50:33] <technogeeky> ok :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:51:25] <technogeeky> I am an experienced perl programmer and I'm of the opinion that the only substantial reason to choose Perl over Ruby (or any language, I guess) is the profoundly awesome CPAN. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:52:11] <technogeeky> Not only for the code contained therein; but, also for the structure, ease of use, and continued maintnence | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:52:55] <lak> oh, sorry; i misunderstood | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:53:05] <lak> i'm not sure that the complexity of what (i think) you mean is worth it yet | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:53:15] <lak> but fortunately it's easy to start without and add it later, right? | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:53:21] <technogeeky> absolutely | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:53:44] <Volcane> can one do a check on an variable for a part of it? like if ($var contains "blah") { } in pseudo code? | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:54:19] <technogeeky> Looking forward, though, the difference between admiration from afar and widescale adoption of a tool like puppet can be so incredibly minute it's pretty silly. | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:55:49] <technogeeky> But I think we'll need to do everything possible, eventually, to encourage code re-use in a predictable, organized manner | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:58:19] <technogeeky> Volcane: there doesn't appear a default way to do that, but if it's possible, I bet regexes will be involved. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:58:54] * Volcane does wish there was a regex match in the if syntax | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:58:58] <chadh> :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:59:04] <Volcane> but cant seem to find it | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:59:33] <chadh> the if syntax only support checking existence ("set-ness") of variables | ||
| [2008/05/15 05:59:47] <Volcane> nods, sigh | ||
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| [2008/05/15 06:02:43] <technogeeky> You could use exec and run something with regexes, and then somehow find out abut the result | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:02:45] <technogeeky> lol HACK | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:03:08] <Volcane> indeed | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:03:57] <technogeeky> Sometimes the job is to simply get the job done. | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:04:11] <technogeeky> That doesn't mean anything coming from me, though, because I totally disagree. | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:04:21] <technogeeky> If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:04:45] * Volcane wouldnt use an exec etc hack | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:06:01] <technogeeky> Yeap. That's tremendously dangerous. | ||
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| [2008/05/15 06:09:29] @ Quit: pleemans: "Ex-Chat" | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:10:47] <ashp> I use a ton of hacks :/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:11:15] <ashp> everyone likes to pretend they are high achievers but i just want to cruise by until my baby is born next month | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:13:11] <technogeeky> ashp: you speak wisely. congrags on the soon to be joy of your life | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:13:16] <technogeeky> s/congrags/congrats/ | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:13:36] <technogeeky> That said, given my "worth doing" speech - I often resort to simply not doing if I can't do it right. | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:13:40] <ashp> I'm just honest, I use puppet because it lets me be lazier and lazier the more and more I automate. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:13:45] <technogeeky> I'm slowly learning that to be counter-productive | ||
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| [2008/05/15 06:53:50] <technogeeky> wtf!: warning: Configuration could not be instantiated: Duplicate definition: Host[jefferson] is already defined in file /etc/puppet/manifests/nodes/BASE.pp at line 18; cannot redefine | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:54:07] <technogeeky> How can that be possible when there's only the one definition (that it mentions) | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:54:20] <holoway> technogeeky: puppet version? | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:55:09] <technogeeky> 0.24.4 | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:55:25] <holoway> are you using an external node tool? | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:56:13] <technogeeky> nope | ||
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| [2008/05/15 06:56:39] <holoway> technogeeky: I feel like there is a bug filed against that, but I'm having trouble finding it | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:57:05] <chadh> I think he is still reading an old configuration | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:57:06] <holoway> I want to say that the cause was having a class applied twice | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:57:07] <technogeeky> http://pastie.caboo.se/197085 | ||
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| [2008/05/15 06:57:45] <technogeeky> that's it lol | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:57:56] <holoway> dose base get included in the node definition, and then included again later on? | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:57:56] @ shenson is now known as shenson_not_here | ||
| [2008/05/15 06:58:08] <technogeeky> nope | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:00:44] <technogeeky> hm. | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:00:49] <technogeeky> it's another FQDN bug, it looks like. | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:01:14] <technogeeky> if I change my hostname to 'jefferson.blah', it works | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:01:22] * holoway boggles | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:02:11] <chadh> not a bug, really. it's because without a domain, the alias is the same as the hostname | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:02:31] <holoway> ahhh | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:02:33] <holoway> sure | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:02:34] <holoway> of course | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:03:00] <holoway> that's an interesting use case | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:03:23] <technogeeky> chadh: If you ever alias a host with itself, it should simply ignore that | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:03:37] <chadh> technogeeky: you got the code ;-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:03:50] <chadh> (this would be a lot more fun if you were right behind me) | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:04:05] @ Quit: Wakko666: Remote closed the connection | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:04:10] <technogeeky> chadh: one step at a time | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:04:25] <technogeeky> as an aside, everyone now things you are creepy +1 | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:05:30] <technogeeky> chadh: you spotted it :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:05:34] <technogeeky> that was the error | ||
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| [2008/05/15 07:11:41] <chadh> is the con call happening in 50 minutes? | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:13:47] <lak> yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:17:31] @ Quit: kambiz: "Leaving" | ||
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| [2008/05/15 07:31:28] <fujin> oh snap, really? | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:31:32] <fujin> forgot my microphone | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:31:38] <fujin> I'm so unorganised | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:31:45] <fujin> oh well, looking forward to the recording | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:31:55] <holoway> fujin: did you see the scrollback re: mongrel_runit | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:32:09] <holoway> it's up on github, and there is a wiki and bug tracker for it now | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:32:10] <fujin> ah nope sec lastloggin | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:32:23] <technogeeky> holoway: in case you're interested, here's my fix: | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:32:24] <technogeeky> http://pastie.caboo.se/197120 | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:32:24] <holoway> rubyforge release of the gem is pending | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:32:37] <fujin> holoway: use the .githubgem stuff? | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:33:27] <technogeeky> lak: what would you expect to... expect... if you see a Host definition who defines an alias to itself? | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:33:27] <holoway> fujin: that's the plan, yeah | ||
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| [2008/05/15 07:33:41] <lak> it should be a noop | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:34:02] <technogeeky> lak: it seems to attempt to redefine the host, and casues a warning | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:34:35] <technogeeky> lak: http://pastie.caboo.se/197085 - this code, if $hostname and $fqdn are the same, will warn that it's already been defined | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:34:47] <technogeeky> my "solution" is a few lines above | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:36:17] <lak> yay | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:36:19] <lak> looks like a bug | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:36:39] <technogeeky> hm. | ||
| [2008/05/15 07:36:55] <technogeeky> where do you think it would be? closer to the aliases part, or to the Host part? | ||
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| [2008/05/15 07:39:52] <lak> aliases, definitely | ||
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| [2008/05/15 08:03:33] <lak> anyone else joining the dev call? | ||
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| [2008/05/15 08:04:33] <anarcat> seems like that debian vulnerability will create more SSL joy with puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:04:38] <anarcat> anyone started to tackle this? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:04:51] <shadoi> plathrop: joining the call? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:05:03] <plathrop> shadoi: No can do. At work, Skype is verboten | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:05:07] <anarcat> refering to: http://www.debian.org/security/2008/dsa-1571 | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:05:16] <shadoi> anarcat: probably a good idea to wipe all your certs (assuming they were created after august 2006) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:05:24] <plathrop> anarcat: I just dealt with it in regards to SSH and that was a huge headache, even with the help of Puppet & Capistrano | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:05:28] <shadoi> let all the clients request new ones and then sign them all at once | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:05:46] <anarcat> shadoi: but i don't need to regen the master certs of the puppetmaster? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:05:55] <shadoi> anarcat: yup, new CA | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:06:04] <plathrop> Good thing lak added the ability to do --clean --all to puppetca, eh? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:06:13] <anarcat> that's going to be total hell | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:06:26] <benp-> do you have to clean anything on the clients? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:06:26] <fujin> just temporarily clean all certs (puppetca --clean --all), enable autosign temporarily, delete each clients $vardir/ssl, reconnect each client | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:06:50] <anarcat> fujin: that implies you ssh into every client | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:06:52] <plathrop> anarcat: You really want to use Capistrano to help. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:06:53] <anarcat> that's awful | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:07] <anarcat> plathrop: then i guess i need to lear wtf capistrano is too eh? ;) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:13] <plathrop> lol | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:14] <fujin> meh | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:14] <plathrop> Yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:15] <TheGratefulNed> anyone know what's causing this error line? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:17] <TheGratefulNed> puppetd[709]: Configuration could not be instantiated: Could not find filebucket local at /etc/puppet/modules/ntp/manifests/init.pp:32 | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:21] <fujin> really no need to use capi when you can use ssh | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:22] <benp-> i only have one debian box, unfortunately i run puppetmaster on it | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:22] <fujin> imo | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:52] <fujin> for i in `grep ^node -r manifests/|awk '{print $2;}'|sort`; do ssh $i 'sudo rm -rf /var/lib/puppet/ssl && sudo /etc/init.d/puppet restart'; done | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:07:54] <plathrop> fujin: What, you use a for loop? Or do you only have a handful of servers? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:08:18] <fujin> just a oneliner for loop | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:08:27] <shadoi> TheGratefulNed: you've specified to use a filebucket named "local" but it's not defined anywhere. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:08:33] <plathrop> There goes IRC answering my questions before I finish typing again :-P | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:08:39] <anarcat> i guess i'll use cssh | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:08:48] <plathrop> anarcat: That works too | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:09:12] <TheGratefulNed> thanks shadoi, i'll have to dig back through our files | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:10:32] <fujin> plathrop: all of my nodes are in an MPLS cloud on private addressing for management/puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:10:42] <fujin> w/ other interfaces when they need to talk to the tubes | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:11:12] @ Quit: TheGratefulNed: | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:11:15] <fujin> 60 odd servers? is tha ta handful | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:12:59] <plathrop> fujin: Just wondering how you got by w/o something like cssh or Capistrano :-) You answered that. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:13:06] @ Quit: ricky: Client Quit | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:13:54] * holoway hearts Capistrano | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:15:29] @ sigmonsays-afk is now known as sigmonsays | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:15:40] <sigmonsays> I'm back! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:15:50] <plathrop> holoway: So here's a challenge I didn't figure out last night when I was up all night patching client machines... how do you deal with apt commands that insist on user interaction? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:16:13] <anarcat> plathrop: preseeding, i would guess | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:17:59] <plathrop> anarcat: Heh. Every day someone shows me something that makes me wonder how I ever did my job before... | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:18:57] <holoway> plathrop: preseeding is exactly rght | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:19:13] @ kolla joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:19:41] <holoway> I have a seed_package definition that pushes the seeds out, so puppets package provider can do the right thing with 'em | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:19:42] <anarcat> ... but i never got it to work or tried to, i'd be curious to see how | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:19:55] <anarcat> holoway: i'd like to see that | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:19:59] <Volcane> just on freshmeat now: | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:20:01] <Volcane> "p@rdalys provides the full configuration set for the Kolab Server and is based on puppet. Besides the configuration data, it provides Ruby extensions to puppet." | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:20:03] <holoway> http://blog.hjksolutions.com/articles/2007/07/27/unattended-package-installation-with-debian-and-ubuntu | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:21:34] <anarcat> holoway: excellent! thanks! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:21:52] <Volcane> doubt it works yet though by the looks of it | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:22:16] <plathrop> holoway: I'm not worthy ;-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:22:43] <holoway> plathrop: you can take that same thing and make a really easy capistrano method | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:23:06] <holoway> we do that for bootstrapping systems to run puppet and the rest of our kit | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:23:13] <holoway> if they are in a managed environment and we don't control the build | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:23:18] <anarcat> gotta give it to dpkg here though | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:23:52] * holoway needs to open source their puppet manifests | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:26:02] @ zobbo joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:26:11] <technogeeky> is that the first-second-first person? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:26:20] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:01] <anarcat> how do you clean the CA certs again? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:06] <anarcat> does ca --clean --all work? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:18] <holoway> technogeeky: it's what I get for talking out loud and in irc at the same time | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:21] <holoway> :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:25] <technogeeky> haha :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:34] <technogeeky> does this code look right to anyone? if existing = @resource_table[newref] | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:34] <technogeeky> return if existing == resource | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:34] <technogeeky> raise(ArgumentError, "Cannot alias %s to %s; resource %s already exists" % [resource.ref, name, newref]) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:34] <technogeeky> end | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:28:53] <technogeeky> isn't that *raise* unreachable? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:29:37] <hacim> fujin: plathrop does puppetca --clean --all kill the CA too? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:29:50] <plathrop> hacim: I don't believe so | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:29:55] <plathrop> Not 100% sure | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:30:21] <hacim> how does one nuke the CA on the puppetmaster properly? and does the rubyssl library need to be updated before this is useful? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:34:00] <holoway> plathrop: you should come to velocity | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:34:17] <plathrop> holoway: I totally am, thanks to lak | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:34:25] <holoway> awesome | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:34:29] <holoway> I will buy you a beer | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:34:36] <plathrop> hacim: I think you just nuke the SSL directory on the puppetmaster | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:35:03] <plathrop> holoway: I'm looking forward to meeting people. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:35:10] * anarcat goes home to spend the night upgrading all around | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:35:11] <plathrop> Sort of. I'm also terrified :-D | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:35:12] <holoway> it's going to be great for that | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:35:18] <plathrop> Good luck, anarcat! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:35:31] <anarcat> thanks | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:36:00] @ sigmonsays_ joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:36:35] <hacim> does anyone know for sure about how to regenerate the puppetmaster's CA? I dont want to just go about willy-nilly nuking directories :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:37:04] <holoway> hacim: well, you have to nuke all the certs anyway | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:37:10] <holoway> if you stop the puppetmasterd | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:37:15] <holoway> blow away /etc/puppet/ssl | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:37:25] <holoway> (or the equiv on your system) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:37:28] <holoway> and start up | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:37:32] <holoway> you'll be back to ground 0, cert wise | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:37:36] <holoway> including a new CA cert | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:38:01] <hacim> ok, but... does that require a new ruby openssl library to be installed first? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:38:26] @ Quit: sigmonsays: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:38:45] <plathrop> hacim: You need to have applied the relevant patches to OpenSSL, etc., for sure. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:38:55] <plathrop> I don't think ruby's library is static-linked | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:39:05] <holoway> plathrop: I hope not | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:39:11] <holoway> but if the upgrade package is available | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:39:14] <holoway> install it just to be sure | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:39:21] <anarcat> *ugh* | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:39:53] <anarcat> i don't have an upgrade for libopenssl-ruby1.8 | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:40:26] <hacim> well lets see if its necessary | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:40:57] <hacim> the one thing I've learned from this debacle is ssh-keygen -R | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:29] <hacim> /usr/lib/ruby/1.8/i486-linux/openssl.so | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:37] <holoway> hacim: hit that with ldd | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:39] <anarcat> ldd that | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:42] <anarcat> hehe | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:43] <holoway> anarcat: jinx | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:49] <hacim> libssl.so.0.9.8 => /usr/lib/i686/cmov/libssl.so.0.9.8 (0xb7e5f000) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:51] <anarcat> holoway: i owe you a beer :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:56] <holoway> so yeah, you're totally fine | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:41:58] <hacim> looks like it should be ok | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:04] <holoway> upgrade openssl and you're money | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:12] <hacim> GOLDEN PONY BOY! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:15] * hacim prances | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:22] <Volcane> and now theres a openssh vulnerbility too from our friends at debian | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:26] <hacim> oops, wrong window! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:28] <holoway> hacim: okay, now you're wierding me out :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:29] <anarcat> Volcane: it's the same | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:30] <hacim> hehe | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:33] <anarcat> hacim: haha | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:45] <anarcat> okay, 'ltr | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:50] <Volcane> anarcat: yeah but u need to update both | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:42:58] <hacim> Volcane: update both what? | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:43:08] <anarcat> Volcane: sure | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:43:13] <anarcat> hacim: openssh openssl | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:43:17] <hacim> err | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:43:26] <hacim> you want to be *sure* to update libopenssl | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:43:30] <hacim> and openssh openssl | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:43:59] <hacim> ie. libssl0.9.8 on debian | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:44:10] <Volcane> you'd hope the openssl deb would have an appropriate dependency to pull in libssl yes | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:44:19] <hacim> it does not | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:44:23] <hacim> the openssh one does though | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:44:34] <Volcane> ah | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:46:02] <holoway> fwiw, i'm going to write a cap task to clean our stuff up right now | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:46:07] <holoway> if any of ya'll want to try it | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:46:39] * Volcane cleaned his stuff up ages ago by eradicating the evil thats debian | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:46:54] <plathrop> holoway: If you share that, I'll buy *you* the beer at Velocity | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:47:21] <plathrop> Volcane: Oh? Your distro of choice doesn't ever have security patches? Awesome. Sign me up. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:47:45] @ Quit: oxtail: "Ex-Chat" | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:48:02] <shadoi> Volcane: you won't make friends dissing Debian here! ;) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:48:06] <Volcane> plathrop: well the problem i have with debian has nothing to do with security issues, anyway, not something to get ito now. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:49:01] <plathrop> Volcane: Yeah, I have a completely irrational hatred of RedHat derivatives, so it's all good. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:49:30] <Volcane> my hatred is totally rational :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:51:58] <hacim> lets start an OS war! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:04] <hacim> never been done before | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:11] <chadh> Go, go Gentoo | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:13] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:26] * Volcane employed a gentoo person once | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:28] * plathrop has said all he has to say. Not interested in rehashing that conversation. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:32] <shadoi> Personally I prefer editor wars. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:33] <Volcane> he advocated we replace everything with gentoo | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:38] <Volcane> so i gave him a 486 desktop | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:52:50] <hacim> haha | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:53:22] <hacim> no offense to gentoo, but I did try and update a system once and it took 24 hours and that pretty much kept me from doing that every again | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:53:28] <hacim> s/every/ever | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:54:22] <chadh> hacim: ahh, there was a time when I actually enjoyed that update process | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:54:32] <Volcane> his 486 compiled pretty mcuh 24/7/365, he even gave up on X as a result cos it wasnt usuble | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:54:32] <plathrop> I find that *every* OS/distribution has *something* I hate about it. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:54:34] <chadh> and then I started managing linux boxes for a living.. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:54:47] <hacim> chadh: yeah :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:55:05] * chadh was a Gentoo developer for a while | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:55:17] <hacim> planthrop: conversely, I actually think that *every* OS/distro has something you can say is cool too | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:55:38] <shadoi> which is why every new distro gets born | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:55:43] <hacim> Volcane: pretty much killed the optimizations he was getting out of the recompiles eh? heh | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:55:58] <shadoi> "I like this bit from redhat" and "this bit from debian" ad nauseum | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:10] <Volcane> hacim: heh | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:16] <plathrop> hacim: Totally | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:20] <chadh> Look out for rhelbuntu | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:23] <ashp> I'm never saying anything good about openbsd and you can't make me! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:31] <shadoi> pf fucking rocks | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:34] <hacim> i wish everyone would just accept that apt rules and we can start cooperating | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:42] <shadoi> and their man pages are the best anywhere. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:43] <holoway> shadoi: pf does kick ass | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:48] * Volcane gave up on freebsd after the last ssl/ssh update debacle that resulted in many many many buildworlds | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:52] * plathrop loves the BSDs | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:56:59] <Volcane> i have one persistant freebsd machine left, but not for long | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:57:11] <shadoi> I made some obsd firewall appliances a while ago, it was a blast. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:57:22] <benp-> shadoi: yes.. no one ever talks about the man pages but yeah theyre the best anywhere | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:57:48] <Volcane> yip, freebsd does have wicked man pages | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:57:52] <benp-> no it doesnt | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:57:59] <shadoi> compare to openbsd | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:58:04] <shadoi> you'll be surprised | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:58:06] <Volcane> never tried openbsd | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:58:10] <benp-> whoa | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:58:23] <Volcane> are they still on bind 4.9? :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:58:41] <ashp> I love freebsd and netbsd | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:58:50] <benp-> i hate freebsd | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:58:51] <ashp> but when I was 14 and first trying unix, I found a kernel panic in openbsd | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:01] <ashp> and when I reporte dit theo himself replied shouting at me and telling me I was a fucking idiot and a LIAR | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:10] <shadoi> haha | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:13] <ashp> It really was a panic too, changing terminals at the console would trigger it every time. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:20] <shadoi> Theo is the biggest drawback to obsd, I agree. | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:20] <benp-> this *used* to be a freebsd shop | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:24] <plathrop> ashp: Theo is a DICK | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:35] <ashp> It was probably just a graphics card going bad, but geez what a bad impression that made on my 14 year old self! | ||
| [2008/05/15 08:59:47] <shadoi> He's like RMS though, he's _consistently_ a dick, you have to admire that. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:00:23] <Volcane> ashp: hehe, i installed SLS linux first on some HDD i got off a old novell server, next day the drive died, little mobo on it went up in smoke, that damaged linux rep for a while :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:00:43] <benp-> till i started using puppet and realized package management on freebsd is stupid and broken | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:00:54] <shadoi> yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:00] <plathrop> Man, I remember when I was like 15 and wanted to try to contribute to OpenBSD. I wrote to the list asking for pointers on getting started. The response I got from him made me avoid trying to contribute to anything for years. | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:06] <shadoi> ports were cool in the 90's. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:10] <benp-> plathrop: hah | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:12] <Volcane> cos back then, in the backwaters of small town in south africa, big drives were *really* hard to come by, if installing linux results in drives dying thats bad++ :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:21] <ashp> plathrop: Ahaha, I'm glad it wasn't JUST me! | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:25] <plathrop> I have to admit, ports suck. | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:37] <plathrop> But FreeBSD is so sexy in a number of other ways... | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:41] <benp-> openbsd and netbsd have much better ports/package systems then freebsd | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:46] <Volcane> plathrop: ports does rock, non packaged base in freebsd totally blows | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:01:51] <ashp> I loved freebsd however, it's still my favourite. | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:02:15] <shadoi> now I'm sort of falling in love with nexenta | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:02:23] <ashp> I used to have ashp@freebsd.org :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:02:25] <benp-> i mean, freebsd packages software by installing it first and then collecting the files from your system.. rather than doing it the other way around like sane people | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:02:32] * Volcane had some 1700+ day uptime bsd machines, rock solid, but i just cant deal with non packaged base anymore | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:02:32] <shadoi> opensolaris+ubuntu is a sweet combination. | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:02:33] * plathrop is enjoying the convo, but has to attend a meeting | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:02:57] @ Quit: sigmonsays_: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:03:11] <ashp> I'd struggle right now with anything I couldn't easily deploy remotely, I use cobbler to kickstart RHEL boxes | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:03:33] <Volcane> yeah rhel's installer is damn kewl | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:03:35] @ sigmonsays_ joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:03:57] <ashp> I would REALLY like to use more solaris, especially as 10 is nice. | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:04:07] <ashp> But sadly my work restricted me to RHEL or Suse Enterprise | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:04:08] <Volcane> sicko :P | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:04:20] <ashp> (We're rebuilding all the suse boxes into RHEL, my decision was easily made) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:04:26] <Volcane> lol | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:04:58] <ashp> I think I hate linux, bsd, solaris and windows equally however. :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:05:17] <ashp> Someone needs to start again and design a modern OS that's completely designed to be automated, clustered, the works. | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:06:18] <Volcane> i generally stick to centos cos in a few startups i helped build investers demanded we go RHEL or something thats uspported at least | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:06:27] <Volcane> wihch makes it a very easy switch | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:08:09] <fastjay> howdee | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:08:36] <fastjay> ashp: i think VMS does most of that clustered / that works stuff :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:08:42] <Volcane> lol | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:08:57] <technogeeky> lak: ping? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:09:05] <lak> pong | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:09:39] @ Quit: markl__: "Lost terminal" | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:10:21] <fastjay> so.. if i install a package.. say mysql and that package adds the users to the system how come puppet will toss an error when i try to setup a file that has mysql for the owner/group (and the package is a require) ? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:10:30] @ emerose joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:10:46] <holoway> fastjay: running nscd? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:10:59] <technogeeky> lak: does this (http://pastie.caboo.se/197188) look like a sensible way to approach this? As an aside, isn't that *raise* in that function unreachable (at least, practically) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:11:04] <fastjay> yes/no this is getting run during kickstart so i don't think nscd is running | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:13:07] <lak> the raise is reachable if the resource you find isn't the same as the one you're aliasing | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:13:43] <lak> what's the actual diff? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:14:06] <technogeeky> lines 8-13 | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:14:07] <lak> it seems pretty similar, but it looks like you've added an 'if', which dupes the (apparently not-working) functionality right below it | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:14:36] @ Quit: roald: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:14:53] <technogeeky> well, I'm assuming there's something that prevents that code from working properly since the alias, in this case, is inside the Host definition? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:15:13] <fastjay> holoway: is there a known workaround for nscd (as we do run nscd after pre installation) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:15:30] * Volcane doesnt think redhat runs nscd during kickstart | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:15:42] <technogeeky> but that bottom one seems to be comparing the resources themselves (as objects, I presume) while I'm just interested in comparing the resource and the alias name | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:15:48] <Volcane> might be wrong though | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:10] <fastjay> Volcane: your guess is as good as mine :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:18] <lak> technogeeky: ah, i see | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:22] <lak> do you have an associated test? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:24] <fastjay> yeah i think i will toss a 'killall nscd' into the puppet wrapper thingy | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:30] <ashp> I'm always baffled by how people hate RHEL, then tell me they use centos | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:33] <ashp> it's the same thing! | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:33] <lak> you should be able to find the other alias tests in the catalog tests | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:41] <sigmonsays_> ashp | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:43] <sigmonsays_> it's not | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:53] <holoway> fastjay: nscd -i passwd/group | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:16:59] <technogeeky> lak: certainly not something formal, but I can show you the case that fails - it's pretty simple. I'll certainly write a test if this patch is somewhere close to the right place | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:17:01] <Volcane> ashp: hehe, well i like both :P | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:17:07] <ashp> It's the same terrible packages recompiled without the terrible price attached! | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:17:33] <lak> technogeeky: the basic point is that if your alias is the same as the resource name, then just noop, right? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:17:56] <technogeeky> lak: but here is the case that failed (fqdn is the same as hostname, in this case): http://pastie.caboo.se/197085 | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:17:58] <technogeeky> lak: yep | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:18:15] <technogeeky> "noop" being return the alias array unmodified | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:18:35] <lak> the return value of that method doesn't matter, i'm pretty sure | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:18:55] <technogeeky> ok, i'll write a test and submit a patch | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:19:39] <technogeeky> i suppose one last question: given that this situation shouldn't happen, should I put a debug or warning message in here to accompany it? or just skip? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:20:29] <lak> i think a warning is reasonable, but really, noop-ing is fine, too | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:23:25] <plathrop> Man, that SSL patch is kicking my butt. | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:23:28] <sigmonsays_> I am having a strange issue where root/root2 is getting created twice. slightly different | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:23:38] <sigmonsays_> (/var/spool/cron/ files ) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:23:51] <sigmonsays_> even though I specify user => root on the cron resource | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:37:25] @ Quit: huangmingyou: "Leaving." | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:42:05] @ Quit: stevenjenkins: "Leaving." | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:46:05] <holoway> anarcat: almost done with a cap task that'll clean up your debian puppet certs | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:46:16] <holoway> wipes everything out, has them re-register, then signs 'em all | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:46:21] <holoway> (if you aren't autosigning) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:49:15] <fujin> holoway: want | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:49:20] <fujin> I haven't looked at cap at all | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:49:22] <fujin> easy to set it up? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:50:09] @ Quit: shadoi: "leaving" | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:50:33] <holoway> yeah | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:50:37] <holoway> gem install cap | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:50:52] <sigmonsays_> cap is a form of head gear | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:51:08] @ Quit: fujin: "Lost terminal" | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:51:15] <holoway> er, gem install capistrano | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:51:36] @ fujin joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:51:45] <sigmonsays_> gotcha | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:52:15] <fujin> lak: see lutter's response on #1219? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:52:16] <gepetto> fujin: lak: #1219 is http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1219 "Disabling a service on Red Hat systems should use 'chkconfig service off', not 'chkconfig --del service'" | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:53:09] <sigmonsays_> is cap* like dsh? | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:53:13] <sigmonsays_> or a bit more hardcore | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:53:41] <plathrop> sigmonsays_: Totally hardcore | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:54:16] <sigmonsays_> that's how I like it | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:55:36] <sigmonsays_> err.. sorta ;-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 09:56:05] <holoway> is htere a way to run puppetmasterd --onetime and have it only generate certs? | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:00:07] <sigmonsays_> holoway, not sure. I just stop it ;-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:01:37] <gepetto> ::puppet:: Ticket #1221 (defect created): adding an alias to a resource with the same name as that resource cau... @ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ticket/1221 (by technogeeky@gmail.com) | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:02:21] <holoway> I'll just be ghetto about it | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:05:29] @ emerose_ joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:08:53] <sigmonsays_> how do I get file { ensure => directory } to mkdir -p ? | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:08:58] <sigmonsays_> I thought recurse => true | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:09:01] <sigmonsays_> but I guess not | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:11:48] @ Quit: emerose: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:12:49] <sigmonsays_> what tools does one use to verify puppet is actually doing what you think | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:13:08] <sigmonsays_> ie, rsyslog traps, resource reporting, etc | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:14:51] <plathrop> sigmonsays_: Right now you have to define resources for all but the ultimate parent directory, I believe. | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:15:04] <holoway> plathrop: cap task coming to nopaste | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:15:10] <holoway> I don't have time to wiki it | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:15:12] <holoway> would you mind? | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:15:13] <sigmonsays_> plathrop, makes sense I reckon | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:15:24] <holoway> pastie: url me | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:15:39] @ Quit: lak: Read error: 113 (No route to host) | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:15:40] <plathrop> sigmonsays_: As for verifying Puppet does what it should, I checked by hand enough to decide I could trust the tool. Probably a naive way to go about it... | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:16:02] <plathrop> holoway: I'm not sure I have time either, but if I get time, I'll definitely wiki it. | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:16:13] <sigmonsays_> plathrop, thx. great help | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:16:29] <sigmonsays_> plathrop, I trust it but it takes experience to realize what it's actually doing | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:17:12] <plathrop> sigmonsays_: I try to be helpful. Since I take forever writing code I do my best to be the IRC helper guy :-P | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:17:33] <sigmonsays_> hehe | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:17:36] <pastie> http://pastie.org/197239 by holoway. | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:17:59] <holoway> fujin: cap task is pasited | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:18:08] <holoway> if you wanna help a brother out, slap it on the puppet wiki | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:18:40] <holoway> plathrop: that task works for us, should work for anyone with some tweaking of constants | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:18:54] @ holoway is now known as holoway-meeting | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:19:33] @ jsgotangco joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:19:44] <plathrop> holoway-meeting: thanks :-) | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:32:22] <fujin> cool holoway-meeting | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:32:23] <fujin> ty | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:32:36] <fujin> tbh I dunno if I'll bother regenerating | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:38:57] * fujin downloads the podcast | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:39:26] <fujin> sigmonsays_: puppet is quite talkative about what it is trying to achieve.. slap --debug on it | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:42:34] <anarcat> holoway-meeting: pong | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:42:43] <anarcat> holoway-meeting: got that cap thingy for me/us? | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:43:13] <MrProper_> morning all | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:43:22] <anarcat> hi | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:43:22] <Gwayne> morning | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:44:01] <sigmonsays_> fujin, yah. I know | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:44:07] <sigmonsays_> fujin, but getting rsyslog | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:44:33] <sigmonsays_> or centraliezd management of that debug output would be wonderful | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:44:46] <sigmonsays_> the logging was thought of well. err: warning: | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:44:47] <sigmonsays_> etc | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:54:18] @ huangmingyou joined channel #puppet | ||
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| [2008/05/15 10:54:26] @ huangmingyou joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:55:28] <anarcat> holoway-meeting: nevermind, i saw the paste | ||
| [2008/05/15 10:56:50] @ ohadlevy joined channel #puppet | ||
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| [2008/05/15 11:00:21] <MrProper_> yay finally finished my jabber-nagios bot | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:02:30] <anarcat> MrProper_: cool :) | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:02:39] @ Quit: jvanzyl: | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:02:54] <anarcat> another bot written from scratch? or something more intelligent? :P | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:03:11] <MrProper_> anarcat, so much easier having nagios send alerts via jabber and then acknowledge them from there | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:04:07] <anarcat> MrProper_: it does ack too? now that's cool | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:04:20] <MrProper_> anarcat, aye and can list current problems | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:04:29] <anarcat> MrProper_: what lang? | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:04:47] <anarcat> (please say python! please say python! please say python!) | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:04:47] <anarcat> ;) | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:05:01] <MrProper_> perl =P | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:05:02] <fujin> sigmonsays_: just use the reports/report=true stuff | ||
| [2008/05/15 11:05:18] <fujin> sigmonsays_: of note, I'm actually working on some code which allows formatting of tagmail with an ERB template |